Is Adam Gilchrist an overrated test batsman ?

[Mister Wright]

Can someone actually point out Gilchrist's flaws in keeping? No he's no Healy, but I'd like to know what is actually wrong with his keeping (throughout his career, don't go soolely pointing out dropped catches during the Ashes). As far as I'm concerned, he's done a top notch job keeping to one of the greatest spinners in history for a very long time now.

He's an adequate keeper for test level, especially given his batting makes up for the mistakes he makes. I'm not calling him a terrible keeper, far from it. I just hate it when people say he is the best keeper Australia has ever had, and that is simply not true. He is the best batsman-keeper we have had without a doubt, but not our best ever keeper.

 

[shortpitched713]

I think Gilchrist is slightly over-rated as a batsman, simply because he's so exciting to watch when in full flow. Still, he is the best batting keeper in recent memory and I think that should definitely count for something.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I've never heard anyone say Gilchrist is the best glovesman Australia has ever had. Mostly people dismiss his keeping abilities, which I think is totally unfair. IMO, Gilchrist has been consistently the best keeper in the world throughout most of his career, which is a pretty amazing feat for a guy who also averages 50 odd and has the best strike rate in test history. I don't think he's as good with the gloves as Healy or even someone like Knott, but he's certainly very good, and better than someone like Andy Flower.

 

[Johnners]

Gilly is definetly not overrated, and the argument that he is just another "flat track bully" seems unjustified. Yes Flintoff had it all over him during the ashes, but then, which batsmen didn't Freddie have wrapped around his little finger ???

Think back to the 3rd test against South Africa late last year, Australia was in dire straights until Gilly pulled a quickfire 86 out from nowhere, and got us much closer to the South African first innings total than we should have ever got. His batting (apart from smiths helpful declaration) was one of, if not the defining point of that match!!

Also, another innings that comes to mind is his 69 (78 balls) V. Pakistan, Perth Test 2004. Australia was floundering at 5/78 until Gilly along with Langer blasted 142 from just 25 overs, again altering the entire course of the match.

He's a major factor as to why Australia has been so successful since 1999, and also a factor as to why we've never had the need for a genuine batting/bowling allrounder. His value to team will become much more apparent once he's retired, as none of those backing up as WK can be nearly as devastating.

 

[C_C]

IMO, Gilchrist has been consistently the best keeper in the world throughout most of his career

This is the first i am hearing of this. Gilly's keeping career is from 99-present, isnt it ?
if thats so, right off the top of my head, Mongia, Reid, Jacobs, Boucher, Moin, Lateef, Parore and Taibu have been better keepers than Gilly.
I think if Gilly was averaging the same as 'good-decent wicketkeeping batsmen', ie, around 35-40, i dont think he'd be in the Aussie team as much as he's been.

 

[Burgey]

This is the first i am hearing of this. Gilly's keeping career is from 99-present, isnt it ?
if thats so, right off the top of my head, Mongia, Reid, Jacobs, Boucher, Moin, Lateef, Parore and Taibu have been better keepers than Gilly.
I think if Gilly was averaging the same as 'good-decent wicketkeeping batsmen', ie, around 35-40, i dont think he'd be in the Aussie team as much as he's been.

Sorry, a number of the blokes you've mentioned are not in Gilly's league even as straight keepers. A sign of a good keeper is not noticing them when they are doing their job. I just struggle to think of many (if any) times his keeping has cost Australia (of course they all drop the odd one). Of those you've mentioned, imo only Moin could be said to be possibly a better 'keeper having played for a reasonable amount of time. Reid hasn't been around at test level and in different conditions to be worthy of comparison; Jacobs, Parore and Taibu hardly had a ball come through to them because their bowlers were getting consistently smashed; Boucher is a model of inconsistency and Latif was snubbed by his own country. Moin was quality.

 

[_Ed_]

Jacobs, Parore and Taibu hardly had a ball come through to them because their bowlers were getting consistently smashed;

Well then Parore did especially well to break the New Zealand record for dismissals (a record previously held by Ian Smith, who kept to one Sir Richard Hadlee).

And of course he has since broken the record for least trustworthy-looking mortgage company advertisements.

 

[Sir Redman]

^ Parore is the best keeper I personally have ever seen (which doesn't really say much though). When he was watching the ball instead of his own reflection he made it look so easy.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

This is the first i am hearing of this. Gilly's keeping career is from 99-present, isnt it ?
if thats so, right off the top of my head, Mongia, Reid, Jacobs, Boucher, Moin, Lateef, Parore and Taibu have been better keepers than Gilly.
I think if Gilly was averaging the same as 'good-decent wicketkeeping batsmen', ie, around 35-40, i dont think he'd be in the Aussie team as much as he's been.

Parore and Taibu are fair calls, the rest aren't. Boucher in particular is ridiculous. Gilchrist is leagues clear of Boucher as a keeper. Boucher is a woeful keeper to spin, while Gilchrist is top class, and Gilchrist doesn't make any more errors off the seamers than Boucher does.

Gilchrist's batting certainly helped him break into the test side, but that's really irrelevant to how well he has kept once he has actually been in it.

 

[Mister Wright]

Parore and Taibu are fair calls, the rest aren't. Boucher in particular is ridiculous. Gilchrist is leagues clear of Boucher as a keeper. Boucher is a woeful keeper to spin, while Gilchrist is top class, and Gilchrist doesn't make any more errors off the seamers than Boucher does.

Gilchrist's batting certainly helped him break into the test side, but that's really irrelevant to how well he has kept once he has actually been in it.

It was a fair while ago, but I remember Boucher keeping quite well to Murali and Vettori in the World XI games.

 

[Dasa]

Parore and Taibu are fair calls, the rest aren't. Boucher in particular is ridiculous. Gilchrist is leagues clear of Boucher as a keeper. Boucher is a woeful keeper to spin, while Gilchrist is top class, and Gilchrist doesn't make any more errors off the seamers than Boucher does.

Gilchrist's batting certainly helped him break into the test side, but that's really irrelevant to how well he has kept once he has actually been in it.

I'd say Mongia, Latif and Moin are (were) comfortably better pure 'keepers than Gilchrist. Read has looked better and far more natural behind the stumps in the chances given but he isn't yet proven.

 

[C_C]

Sorry, a number of the blokes you've mentioned are not in Gilly's league even as straight keepers. A sign of a good keeper is not noticing them when they are doing their job. I just struggle to think of many (if any) times his keeping has cost Australia (of course they all drop the odd one). Of those you've mentioned, imo only Moin could be said to be possibly a better 'keeper having played for a reasonable amount of time. Reid hasn't been around at test level and in different conditions to be worthy of comparison; Jacobs, Parore and Taibu hardly had a ball come through to them because their bowlers were getting consistently smashed; Boucher is a model of inconsistency and Latif was snubbed by his own country. Moin was quality.

Actually, Moin was always seen by the PCB as a better bat than Latif and coupled with Latif getting involved in team politics, Moin got the nod ahead of Latif near the end of their careers. But Latif was a better keeper than Moin and easily better than Gilly.
Taibu too, is a much better keeper than Gilly and Mongia was one of the last 'pure keepers' who's keeping skills overshadowed his batting skills. At the height of Mongia, his keeping was just as good as Healey's and sharper against spin.
Jacobs too i'd rate ahead of Gilly simply because he out-Gillied Gillie in terms of being steady. Jacobs was probably the steadiest keeper in the last 5-6 years or so who at the same time was unspectacular.
One sitting watching Reid and it is clear that his skills at keeping are cutting edge and better than anything Gilly can dream of doing-just that his batting is too wonky and he gets the 'Jack Russell treatment'.
Parore too was an excellent keeper-very nimble and rarely dropped catches.
Boucher maybe contestable because he is prone to being inconsistent and having shocking days but IMO he more than makes up for it by having brilliant days that Gilly almost never has. But yes, i concede that Boucher is contestable. However, the rest are easily better than Gilly when it comes to keeping.

 

[PY]

Far too many 'way clear' and 'so much better' and 'leagues clear' (sorry Sean) for this discussion for my liking.

As Goughy said, I'd have taken him at any point in his Test career into the England setup in a flash. That doesn't say too much but getting Gilchrist's wicket was like a weight off the back when oppositions got him out because he was THAT good with the bat for a number 7.

I think his keeping was similar to Alec Stewart's really (towards the end of Alec's career) IMO, very dependable & rarely made mistakes and sometimes excellent but I wouldn't say he had a streak of world-class with the gloves. You could argue he never had to do anything out of the ordinary because of McGrath, Gillespie, Warne and the others did the basics so well that his job description didn't require it.

Good job he was a freak-show with the willow then isn't it?

 

[marc71178]

And of course he has since broken the record for least trustworthy-looking mortgage company advertisements.

Tuffers would have a thing or 2 to say about that.

 

[tooextracool]

Gilly is definetly not overrated, and the argument that he is just another "flat track bully" seems unjustified. Yes Flintoff had it all over him during the ashes, but then, which batsmen didn't Freddie have wrapped around his little finger ???

difference being that almost every bowler,including Nel and Kallis(of all bowlers) since the Ashes has had Gilchrist wrapped around their finger in much the same way.
Whether he manages to work something out against this remains to be seen, but this along with his already ordinary record against all forms of spin certainly make him overrated in my book.

 

[Johnners]

difference being that almost every bowler,including Nel and Kallis(of all bowlers) since the Ashes has had Gilchrist wrapped around their finger in much the same way.

Yes since the ashes he hasn't been at his best... and i think it would be a fair argument to say that a tremendous workload is a rather large contributer to that! But the past must count for something, and to average 50+ with an 80+ s/r for 69 test matches (before ashes 2005) is a pretty compelling argument!

It strikes me as a little odd that the concept of Gilly being overrated as a Batsmen has only come up since he has been in a bad run of form???

 

[aussie]

This is the first i am hearing of this. Gilly's keeping career is from 99-present, isnt it ?
if thats so, right off the top of my head, Mongia, Reid, Jacobs, Boucher, Moin, Lateef, Parore and Taibu have been better keepers than Gilly.

I'd give you Parore & Mongia for for sure, the rest are higly debated AFAIC..

I think if Gilly was averaging the same as 'good-decent wicketkeeping batsmen', ie, around 35-40, i dont think he'd be in the Aussie team as much as he's been.

Well i totally disagree, since 99 no other keeper in domestic cricket would have challenged Gilly at all. You are extremely under-rating his keeping, since for the majority of his career he had to keep to Warne which is no easy task.

 

[aussie]

It was a fair while ago, but I remember Boucher keeping quite well to Murali and Vettori in the World XI games.

You sure, i remembe having a few problems againts Murali especially in Australia's 1st Innings.

 

[Johnners]

You sure, i remembe having a few problems againts Murali especially in Australia's 1st Innings.

Yep, i recall that as well,boucher looked all at sea keeping to murali in the 1st innings.

People seem to forget though, Gilly has kept to Warne for 7 years without much fuss!

 

[marc71178]

It strikes me as a little odd that the concept of Gilly being overrated as a Batsmen has only come up since he has been in a bad run of form???

To be fair, people on here have mentioned it well in the past as well...