Indian Discussion

[vicleggie]

despite the crap that cynics said last night about india, about "that win did more harm than good" (ie because of selection queries with chawla/ashwin), i thought last night was ABSOLUTE HUGE for india going forward.

it shows that this brilliant attitude they've had for the last 6 months or so isn't a fluke. They batted poorly against some brett lee pace, but they DID NOT GIVE Up. it is as if they took it ball by ball, and broke aus down like THEY used to do to other teams at the height of their powers. just awesome pressure and irresistable spin bowling from all 3 spinners.

The win gives them the confidence that (despite the fact they wont be playing 3 spinners), they can win from anywhere. they choked the aus team with their fight and spirit, and i thought their fielding was tremendous as well.

Last night was huge for india- they look ripe and ready, and - even if they lose wickets or ahve a bad 50 overs, the fans know that they will NOT fold easily.

 

[alternative]

WOW... people are reading too much into the game.

 

[vicleggie]

WOW... people are reading too much into the game.

it's called being astute

 

[deerkick]

Did raise red flags about Yuvi, Dhoni, and Raina though. The short ball to Yuvi that got him out, he had no idea what to do against that. Raina, wow, I have no idea what happened to his form. And Dhoni...he used to rescue us out of major situations. He hasn't really scored.

Positives: Sehwag trying to play a more positive role and staying around. That will definitely help if he can hang around in the future.

 

[vcs]

Did raise red flags about Yuvi, Dhoni, and Raina though. The short ball to Yuvi that got him out, he had no idea what to do against that. Raina, wow, I have no idea what happened to his form. And Dhoni...he used to rescue us out of major situations. He hasn't really scored.

Positives: Sehwag trying to play a more positive role and staying around. That will definitely help if he can hang around in the future.

Sehwag's temperament in ODIs has improved a lot in the last couple of years, he can certainly change gears now according to situation. The infamous "Randiv no-ball" game was a good example of this.

 

[Cruxdude]

Really worried about Raina, Yuvi and Dhoni. We were really bad with the bat except for Sehwag and Yusuf. Need this long group stages to get these guys into form if we hope to win this WC.

 

[deerkick]

Sehwag's temperament in ODIs has improved a lot in the last couple of years, he can certainly change gears now according to situation. The infamous "Randiv no-ball" game was a good example of this.

Indeed. That's what kinda puts me at ease. With our top order we can somewhat cover up our brittle middle order. I think Gambhir will find some form, especially now that it's in the subcontinent. And he's gritty to boot.

 

[deerkick]

Really worried about Raina, Yuvi and Dhoni. We were really bad with the bat except for Sehwag and Yusuf. Need this long group stages to get these guys into form if we hope to win this WC.

Exactly which is why we MUST play Kohli. With a lineup of:
1) Sehwag
2) Tendulkar
3) Gambhir
4) Kohli
we can easily cover our weaknesses. The other 3 are way too out of form. We just have to hope one of them clicks. Preferably Dhoni since Yusuf can do the big hitting as can our lower order (Bhaji, Ashwin).

 

[Arjun]

Really worried about Raina, Yuvi and Dhoni. We were really bad with the bat except for Sehwag and Yusuf. Need this long group stages to get these guys into form if we hope to win this WC.

Exactly which is why we MUST play Kohli. With a lineup of:
1) Sehwag
2) Tendulkar
3) Gambhir
4) Kohli
we can easily cover our weaknesses. The other 3 are way too out of form. We just have to hope one of them clicks. Preferably Dhoni since Yusuf can do the big hitting as can our lower order (Bhaji, Ashwin).

Dhoni's also the wicketkeeper, and he bats very low down the order, so it's a lot less of a concern. He is one of India's top ODI batsmen, second only to Tendulkar, and even in less emphatic form, he's not too bad (Yuvi, on the other hand, oh well). Of the three struggling for form, he's the least of the concerns. Raina can be kept at six as a late-overs striker, and his fielding is still top notch. He's been slightly better in the last year and a month, bar that tour of South Africa, performances in which are misleading.

Yuvraj, though, should be given the boot straightaway. He adds no value whatsoever on current form, dating back to last year, and has been given loads of chances in the frontline, while the likes of Yusuf and Ashwin are often on the periphery. There's no need to have him in the side at all, for this event.

The real concern are the seamers. Nehra has done worse than Ishant despite playing more games, and Munaf is only a flat deck game away from slipping into that form. Both have struggled in India, and will be smashed on flat decks. It's a major concern because Dhoni seems to prefer both of them ahead of Sreesanth, who chips off a lot of wickets among all the runs conceded, but all economy rates will be high in India. The spin attack of Bhajji and Yusuf is competent, if not breathtaking, but Dhoni's tendency to give loads of overs to Yuvraj weakens the bowling attack either slightly or greatly.

 

[Blaze 18]

Yuvraj's bowling in recent times has been more than acceptable.

 

[Daemon]

Dhoni's also the wicketkeeper, and he bats very low down the order, so it's a lot less of a concern. He is one of India's top ODI batsmen, second only to Tendulkar, and even in less emphatic form, he's not too bad (Yuvi, on the other hand, oh well). Of the three struggling for form, he's the least of the concerns. Raina can be kept at six as a late-overs striker, and his fielding is still top notch. He's been slightly better in the last year and a month, bar that tour of South Africa, performances in which are misleading.

Yuvraj, though, should be given the boot straightaway. He adds no value whatsoever on current form, dating back to last year, and has been given loads of chances in the frontline, while the likes of Yusuf and Ashwin are often on the periphery. There's no need to have him in the side at all, for this event.

The real concern are the seamers. Nehra has done worse than Ishant despite playing more games, and Munaf is only a flat deck game away from slipping into that form. Both have struggled in India, and will be smashed on flat decks. It's a major concern because Dhoni seems to prefer both of them ahead of Sreesanth, who chips off a lot of wickets among all the runs conceded, but all economy rates will be high in India. The spin attack of Bhajji and Yusuf is competent, if not breathtaking, but Dhoni's tendency to give loads of overs to Yuvraj weakens the bowling attack either slightly or greatly.

Yusuf can still pull a win out of his arse unlike Raina and Yuvi. Can barely recall those two doing anything of substance in the recent past. Still think Yuvraj edges out Raina because if he isn't there, Yusuf has to bowl 10 overs on his own every game. As for the seamers, a fit Praveen Kumar would have solved most of the problems but unfortunately he isn't good to go. Ashwin, Bhajji, Zak are probably all but confirmed to be in the attack. No idea which of Munaf/Sree/Nehra Dhoni will pick. He clearly lacks confidence in all three atm, seeing as they bowled a total of 9 overs in that Australia game. Most likely it'll be Sreesanth but we'll see based on the NZ game today.

What I'd pick is: -

Sehwag
Sachin
Gambhir
Kohli
Yuvraj (Unfortunately, he's a useful bowler. If he didn't have that I'd even pick Parthiv over him)
Yusuf
Dhoni
Ashwin (no reason to replace him with a third seamer ffs)
Harbhajan
Zaheer
Sreesanth

 

[Howe_zat]

I'd agree with Deamon's XI, though I'd bat Dhoni at five. Sree ahead of Nehra something of a gamble but it may well pay off.

 

[Daemon]

I'd agree with Deamon's XI, though I'd bat Dhoni at five. Sree ahead of Nehra something of a gamble but it may well pay off.

Agreed about Dhoni at 5, although it's probably situational. If India is in trouble early on and 3-down I'd much rather see Dhoni walk in than Yuvraj.

 

[Blaze 18]

Daemon, why is Ashwin a certainty ?

 

[Daemon]

Daemon, why is Ashwin a certainty ?

1 decent and 2 piss poor seamers isn't ideal, especially in India. For me he's a certain pick because he's been doing pretty well since he came in, and his match figures in the last game really don't show how well he bowled. Selectors might think otherwise, but I'm pretty sure he'll make the final XI.

Anyways, it could all change after this NZ match.

 

[Blaze 18]

1 decent and 2 piss poor seamers isn't ideal, especially in India. For me he's a certain pick because he's been doing pretty well since he came in, and his match figures in the last game really don't show how well he bowled. Selectors might think otherwise, but I'm pretty sure he'll make the final XI.

Anyways, it could all change after this NZ match.

I think Chawla's performance in the last warm-up match has given him the edge.

 

[Daemon]

I think Chawla's performance in the last warm-up match has given him the edge.

Ashwin deserved more wickets too, was unlucky. Chawla did well, agreed, but he had alot of help from the pitch/Australian batsmen. One warm up game doesn't necessarily put him higher on the pecking order. As I said before, much depends on todays game for the selection of the bowlers apart from Bhaj/Zak.

Edit: Raina is making a statement out there now, guess thats it for Yuvi. Btw, nice avatar Blaze 18!

 

[Cevno]

Yuvi is going no where.

He will bowl a lot more overs in actual matches than he has in these matches because simply India will be allowed to play with 4 specialist bowlers not 6/7 like in these matches.

If it was not for the variety he adds to the bowling it would have been a easy choice but not now.

Have been saying this for months now that it is a straight toss up between Gambhir and Kohli for the no.3 spot otherwise it affects team balance.

Raina is crucial to play both ways and end matches in the middle order ,while Kohli is more of a proper top order batsman.

 

[Daemon]

Yuvi is going no where.

He will bowl a lot more overs in actual matches than he has in these matches because simply India will be allowed to play with 4 specialist bowlers not 6/7 like in these matches.

If it was not for the variety he adds to the bowling it would have been a easy choice but not now.

Have been saying this for months now that it is a straight toss up between Gambhir and Kohli for the no.3 spot otherwise it affects team balance.

Raina is crucial to play both ways and end matches in the middle order ,while Kohli is more of a proper top order batsman.

Tbh Raina is mostly useful when we are already in a good position, Kohli is needed for those top order collapses which we will inevitably find ourselves in.

 

[Howe_zat]

Don't think there was much Raina did today that Waterboy couldn't have done. Neither of them would have played Gambhir's innings in this kind of form though, so he ought to stay at six.

Ashwin and Chawla competing for one spot, Nehra and Sree competing for the other. Munaf's fielding keeping him out of the side for me. Shocking.