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Indian cricket off season discussion

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
I begin with a link to a detailed interview Tendulkar has given in Telegraph, India.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050501/asp/sports/story_4683321.asp

A few pointers :

On Sehwag

The free flow and swing of his bat… Also, his thought process is very good. It may appear he goes bang-bang-bang, but that’s not so. Sehwag plans, doesn’t close his eyes and swing... He’s aware of the areas he needs to target.

On Kumble

Barring a few matches, he has always been at his best… One gets to hear a lot about Anil not spinning the ball and not doing this or that… Well, now that he has 461 Test wickets, people must keep their mouths shut. If they still are intent on criticising him, they ought to first have a closer look at themselves.

On Ganguly

He tried to score, but couldn’t… He wanted to contribute and feel good, but couldn’t… Clearly, the criticism didn’t help... That Sourav’s form became such a big issue just didn’t help him … As I’ve said, you’ve got to make an allowance for failure.

Probably for the first time he explained why he batted the way he did in the third test versus Pakistan which came for a lot of criticism, SJS said he was disappointed by Tendulkar for the FIRST time in his career. Javed Miandad in a cricket column wrote how it was the wrong approach to play. Its still an inning which intrigues quite a few people including me because of the defensive approach Tendulkar followed in the inning.

Following are the reasons which Tendulkar gives for the plan of the team and why he batted the way he did

On why he went into a shell

It’s easy for people to talk… The close-in fielders, though, would have moved away only if we had a chance of winning… And, with four wickets (Gautam Gambhir, Rahul Dravid, V.V.S. Laxman and Sourav Ganguly) falling in the second session, where was that chance? Where was that support for me to play positively? In any case, (Virender) Sehwag had got out in the opening session itself… Those who were free with criticism should understand nothing would have been achieved (at that stage) by trying to be positive… It was a fifth day wicket with dual bounce and the ball often didn’t spin the way it threatened to… My objective was to kill time, without giving the opposition any chance to break through… There are times when, playing positively, you play a shot which is just 80 per cent safe… I didn’t want to give Pakistan even a 20 per cent chance on any shot from my bat. After all, a draw would have given us the series... If you recall, I’d started differently, hitting (Mohammed) Sami for a four on probably the second ball. But, then, wickets began to fall and I had to adjust. Indeed, playing a few shots wouldn’t have changed Pakistan’s game plan.

on India's game plan

To have enough wickets in hand by the end of the third hour, a situation which would have helped us control the Test… Given that Sehwag left early, our best chance of winning was to have been only one-down when the fourth hour began.

on getting out

I’d been playing for the team… I’d been telling myself I had to be patient… That I had to take it ball by ball… I was upset.
 

adharcric

International Coach
If you take a look at India's batting in the one-day series versus Pakistan and analyze how our top 7 batsmen fared after taking out their top score, the results are interesting. This is certainly flawed as a means of measuring consistency, but still it sheds some light on how our batsmen performed.
batsman, (average), (average w/o HS), (strike rate)
V. Sehwag, 40, 26, 113
S. Tendulkar, 24, 4, 81
R. Dravid, 51, 41, 80
S. Ganguly, 8, 4, 48
Y. Singh, 20, 13, 84
M. Kaif, 21, 10, 82
M. Dhoni, 44, 23, 96

by performance, sehwag, dravid and dhoni did well enough to secure their place in the lineup. by default, tendulkar is in. ganguly should definitely be out for now, while yuvraj and kaif need to be moved to the appropriate position in the lineup and show some consistency with the bat. laxman was taken out even though he was performing better than most of the other indian batsmen, so he should be reinstated for now.

Sehwag & Tendulkar to open ... Laxman and Kaif are best at the #3/#4 spots, Dravid has done more than enough to merit that #3/#4 spot, and Dhoni is the current option at the #3 spot ... Yuvraj is certainly best suited for a later batting spot as he can play the big shots

Openers: V. Sehwag, S. Tendulkar ... reserves Gambhir, Dhawan, Ganguly (once in form)
3-4-5: R. Dravid, V. Laxman, M. Kaif / M. Dhoni ... reserves Raina, Rao, Ganguly, Sriram
6-7: Y. Singh / all-rounder (Powar, Yadav), M. Kaif / M. Dhoni ... reserves Badani, etc...
Bowlers: I. Pathan (in-form), Z. Khan, A. Nehra / L. Balaji / A. Agarkar, H. Singh ... reserves Kumble, Mishra, VRV / Nabi, RP Singh, A. Bhandari, J. Sharma, G. Singh

just some thoughts ...
 

mofo123

U19 12th Man
adharcric said:
If you take a look at India's batting in the one-day series versus Pakistan and analyze how our top 7 batsmen fared after taking out their top score, the results are interesting. This is certainly flawed as a means of measuring consistency, but still it sheds some light on how our batsmen performed.
batsman, (average), (average w/o HS), (strike rate)
V. Sehwag, 40, 26, 113
S. Tendulkar, 24, 4, 81
R. Dravid, 51, 41, 80
S. Ganguly, 8, 4, 48
Y. Singh, 20, 13, 84
M. Kaif, 21, 10, 82
M. Dhoni, 44, 23, 96

by performance, sehwag, dravid and dhoni did well enough to secure their place in the lineup. by default, tendulkar is in. ganguly should definitely be out for now, while yuvraj and kaif need to be moved to the appropriate position in the lineup and show some consistency with the bat. laxman was taken out even though he was performing better than most of the other indian batsmen, so he should be reinstated for now.

Sehwag & Tendulkar to open ... Laxman and Kaif are best at the #3/#4 spots, Dravid has done more than enough to merit that #3/#4 spot, and Dhoni is the current option at the #3 spot ... Yuvraj is certainly best suited for a later batting spot as he can play the big shots

Openers: V. Sehwag, S. Tendulkar ... reserves Gambhir, Dhawan, Ganguly (once in form)
3-4-5: R. Dravid, V. Laxman, M. Kaif / M. Dhoni ... reserves Raina, Rao, Ganguly, Sriram
6-7: Y. Singh / all-rounder (Powar, Yadav), M. Kaif / M. Dhoni ... reserves Badani, etc...
Bowlers: I. Pathan (in-form), Z. Khan, A. Nehra / L. Balaji / A. Agarkar, H. Singh ... reserves Kumble, Mishra, VRV / Nabi, RP Singh, A. Bhandari, J. Sharma, G. Singh

just some thoughts ...
tendulkar should be in by default? honestly thats ridiculous!!!!!!!! gangulay has 3 bad tests...if u look at his average before those 3 tests.
the 10 test before the pakistan series he scored 532 runs in 13 innings at a 40.1 average, not that really isnt THAT bad. how about you ungrateful people, leave the guy alone? and try and remember how many times hes rescued the situation for india...absolutly NO loyalty wotsoeva....its disgraceful and disgusting
 

adharcric

International Coach
mofo123 said:
tendulkar should be in by default? honestly thats ridiculous!!!!!!!! gangulay has 3 bad tests...if u look at his average before those 3 tests.
the 10 test before the pakistan series he scored 532 runs in 13 innings at a 40.1 average, not that really isnt THAT bad. how about you ungrateful people, leave the guy alone? and try and remember how many times hes rescued the situation for india...absolutly NO loyalty wotsoeva....its disgraceful and disgusting
if tendulkar was slumping as badly as ganguly is right now, i wouldn't have made that default comment. what i meant is that given tendulkar isn't absolute crap right now with the bat (like ganguly), he is in the side because we know what he can do on any given day. i'm all for ganguly working his way back into form because i know he's an excellent batsman, but right now he isn't getting anything done for the team so he needs a break. agree with your point about people not supporting gangs though, the guy deserves criticism for his pathetic play right now but one should also realize how good of a batsman he truly is.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Have to say that is an interesting way of looking at batting averages - and very revealing as well.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
vic_orthdox said:
why don't you take out their worst score as well? its only fair...
yeah, that would be even more interesting..... I remember reading that it was a method in statistics when they take out the highest crest and the lowest trough and then redo the calculations. Could be very interesting.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
honestbharani said:
yeah, that would be even more interesting..... I remember reading that it was a method in statistics when they take out the highest crest and the lowest trough and then redo the calculations. Could be very interesting.
Its what they do for diving...and gymnastics...and all those sports....
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Pratyush said:
The close-in fielders, though, would have moved away only if we had a chance of winning… And, with four wickets (Gautam Gambhir, Rahul Dravid, V.V.S. Laxman and Sourav Ganguly) falling in the second session, where was that chance?
He should have played more positively, not to push the fielders back (that would depend on Inzy), but to give himself a better chance for survival.

His defensive intent made it very easy for the close in fielders to concentrate on his bat and go for anything that came of it even slightly in the air. If he had been playing more positively, they would blink !! If you see what I mean.

It was not to win or to push the fielders away but because survival with pure defense with so many close in fielders was a strategy much less likely to work over the time that was available.

He made a tactical error.

Secondly, if he had to defend he should have defended ONLY off the back foot, coming forward only to drive and going back to defend because the chance of keeping the ball down and playing it , intentionally, away from the fielders improves dramatically off the backfoot.

He made an error of judgement.

I suspect, though I may be totally mistaken, he felt he should defend and try and save the side rather than play normally and get blamed if he was out playing a shot.

If so, he showed he was affected by the chatter of the arm-chair experts.
 

shankar

International Debutant
SJS said:
He should have played more positively, not to push the fielders back (that would depend on Inzy), but to give himself a better chance for survival.

His defensive intent made it very easy for the close in fielders to concentrate on his bat and go for anything that came of it even slightly in the air. If he had been playing more positively, they would blink !! If you see what I mean.

It was not to win or to push the fielders away but because survival with pure defense with so many close in fielders was a strategy much less likely to work over the time that was available.

He made a tactical error.

Secondly, if he had to defend he should have defended ONLY off the back foot, coming forward only to drive and going back to defend because the chance of keeping the ball down and playing it , intentionally, away from the fielders improves dramatically off the backfoot.

He made an error of judgement.

I suspect, though I may be totally mistaken, he felt he should defend and try and save the side rather than play normally and get blamed if he was out playing a shot.

If so, he showed he was affected by the chatter of the arm-chair experts.
But having chosen that tactic, he didnt look in any trouble except that ball on which he got out. He probably knew that the tactic was risky, but was confident that he could pull it off, the way he was batting.
 

mofo123

U19 12th Man
adharcric said:
if tendulkar was slumping as badly as ganguly is right now, i wouldn't have made that default comment. what i meant is that given tendulkar isn't absolute crap right now with the bat (like ganguly), he is in the side because we know what he can do on any given day. i'm all for ganguly working his way back into form because i know he's an excellent batsman, but right now he isn't getting anything done for the team so he needs a break. agree with your point about people not supporting gangs though, the guy deserves criticism for his pathetic play right now but one should also realize how good of a batsman he truly is.
thanx :) agreed
 

adharcric

International Coach
Well then, let's try a slightly more sophisticated approach. I'll take out the highest and lowest score for each batsman, and take the entire 2004-2005 season of cricket (that includes the pak jubilee, bangladesh series and pakistan disaster ... one-day matches).

Batsman (average) (adjusted average)
V. Sehwag (41) (37)
S. Tendulkar (25) (15)
R. Dravid (57) (56)
S. Ganguly (20) (18)
V. Laxman (43) (jubilee only)
M. Kaif (37) (36)
Y. Singh (30) (27)
M. Dhoni (35) (22)

based on these figures, dravid, sehwag, kaif and laxman (deserves his spot) should be in simply by performance. dhoni is also in as he has impressed. that leaves two spots open. one goes to tendulkar obviously. the other is split between yuvraj, ganguly, another batsman or an all-rounder (yadav/powar).
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Feedback on Dean Jones wanting to coach India? He's very aggressive, very innovative and relies a lot on R&D, which may be ideal for this Indian side.

The BCCI should introduce a modified version of the 20-over game, where they use lighter balls (to help the faster bowlers go for pace), soft outfields (to encourage sliding and diving, and also cut out easy fours) and concrete pitches (good pace, good bounce, conducive to hard hitting), as well as field restriction rules to encourage attacking field placings.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
I don't see why they should doctor the rules - it won't change the way people play when they play with the proper rules.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
honestbharani said:
Arjun, I think almost all of us know what the BCCI HAVE to do....The point is that they won't do that....
At least there are some like Lalit Modi and IS Bindra, who know what's good for the game and would try hard to implement their plans. Hopefully we'll have them in charge of the BCCI rather than some individuals keen on promoting vested interests and running for the top post all the time.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
What's your opinion of Sanjay Bangar? He doesn't seem to be the most talented of players, but tries very hard with both skills all the time. Interstingly, he's done quite well playing for India Board President's XI (FC), India A (List-A) and the Indian side playing in side matches abroad (he has an average of a little over 30), while Balaji has played in the A-team for four tours and averaged over 40, yet is a very regular fixture in the current Indian Test and ODI side! To add, he bowled at the same pace as Balaji, in the 120's, with the odd 130+ delivery. Unfortunately, Bangar's fielding was not up to the mark, but with the likes of Balaji and Yohannan and an out-of-form Srinath and Nehra getting many overs (one read 10-0-87-0), he should have got more than just three a match.

Then there's Rajesh Pawar, a new favourite among the selectors. He's done quite well for Baroda this season and has figured in the Deodhar, Duleep and Challenger tournaments, and has had moderate success. With Kumble's recent ODI performances not too good (average of 61 last year), would you have Pawar as a frontline spinner in ODI's?
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
If you take a look at the front page of this forum, you'll notice four threads about Australian domestic cricket. Why can't Indian fans discuss Indian domestic cricket so actively?
 

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