Indian Cricket Dhaba

[Pratters]

Harbhajan was fine in Lanka when he gave the ball more air and wasn't so when he started to shoot it in, which was most of it. He probably wasn't very confident back after a long time. When he gives it air, he is bowling really well, as seen last game. In the past month or so, his confidence in the Indian setup has also increased. Seeing how he has been bowling, I think he will do well v SA in tests.

 

[CricAddict]

It's important to watch cricket rather than just look at stats. Else Joginder Sharma would be the greatest bowler ever and Hussain would not play lot of test cricket. I have told you million times the two or so fc games Harbhajan found the wickets non supportive of spinners. Not sure why you are drawing me into debates either.

Though not the full story, stats do tell part of the story. How does the below stats of a grand total of 1 wicket in 4 ODIs make Joginder Sharma the greatest bowler ever? I too would love to have an in-form Bhajji in the team but he should be selected on merit.

Joginder Sharma | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[honestbharani]

Harbhajan was fine in Lanka when he gave the ball more air and wasn't so when he started to shoot it in, which was most of it. He probably wasn't very confident back after a long time. When he gives it air, he is bowling really well, as seen last game. In the past month or so, his confidence in the Indian setup has also increased. Seeing how he has been bowling, I think he will do well v SA in tests.

Look, you cant pick sides based on how a player looks WHEN he is doing the right things. It matters only if he can do it often enough and Bhajji post 2010 has just not been good consistently enough to be a threat in longer form cricket. End of. Even before 2010 it was often patchy. I watched more cricket than you might think and I think Jadeja is better than Bhaji with the bat, ball and the field for tests. And so do most people who understand cricket.


Teams are chosen by people who watch more domestic cricket than me and most certainly you and they feel Jadeja is better. We can keep going back to picking sides that Prattes believes is the best, but I care more about picking sides that can win India games.

 

[honestbharani]

It's important to watch cricket rather than just look at stats. Else Joginder Sharma would be the greatest bowler ever and Hussain would not play lot of test cricket. I have told you million times the two or so fc games Harbhajan found the wickets non supportive of spinners. Not sure why you are drawing me into debates either.

NOt drawing you into any debates. Just pointing out your double standards. Your comment would hold some water if no spinner ever performed in the games Bhaji sucked in. Its not so. And of course stats are not everything. But they do represent performance, which Bhaji had none of in FC. NO matter how many times you or Bhaji wants us to believe those were grasscourts that cricket was played on, fact is, they were not and he was simply not good enough.

 

[Pratters]

Though not the full story, stats do tell part of the story. How does the below stats of a grand total of 1 wicket in 4 ODIs make Joginder Sharma the greatest bowler ever? I too would love to have an in-form Bhajji in the team but he should be selected on merit.

Joginder Sharma | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

Joginder ODI stats say exactly what I want to - that he wasn't a world beater. You missed my sarcasm.

Regarding Harbhajan - I would say he was back on merit. Bowled well during the IPL and showed he can bowl good deliveries. It was marked improvement from what he had been bowling.

 

[Daemon]

Dhawan
Vijay
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Rohit
Saha
Ashwin
Mishra/Jadeja
Bhuvi
Yadav

Ishant out due to being a fool and getting himself banned. If the selectors insist on not picking Pujara then I guess Jadeja comes in. No place for Harbhajan imo.

 

[cnerd123]

Huh? You did see how awesome mishra was in SL didn't you?

Yea he did bowl well there tbf. It is Mishra tho. He has done this before. Looked good for a handful of games, then returns back to being bleh. He hasn't put more than 2 series of consistently good bowling together yet. He is a rhythm bowler, who keeps losing his rhythm. I'd pick him over Jadeja as long as he is bowling well, but I don't think he has turned a corner and has finally found consistency.

Jadeja, on the other hand, is remarkably consistent. He was just overworked. He was so good when he first broke into the Test side, we even had him as our lead spinner for a while. Then he just got flatter and faster, as a result of being overworked, being made to bowl all those key overs in ODIs, and not being able to cope with the bowling loads being asked of him.

In terms of a second spinner for the side, I do think Jadeja is a better option than Mishra, just because he is so much better at building pressure. He's also a better fielder and they're both probably equally good batting at 8. Jadeja has age on his side too. I'd definitely prefer him over Mishra if he's fit and firing.

But its fair to not drop Mishra given how well he has been bowling of late.

I'm never a fan of playing 3 spinners. On a normal pitch, play your lead spinner (Ashwin). On a turner, play your two best spinners (Ashwin, Mishra). Even if it's a rank square turner, you don't really need the third option anyway as the two you have should be able to do the job anyway, and having a third inferior one in Jadeja might only end up taking away overs which could've been bowled by the other 2, as captains feel obligated to bowl all options available.

If India are playing five bowlers, then DWTA. If Jadeja is bowling as well as did when he broke into the side, and the pitch is a turner, I'd definitely pick him to support Ashwin and Mishra. He's a better option than playing Yadav/Aaron/Mohit on a surface that doesn't suit them (Assuming Ishant and Bhuvi are the two seamers ofc)

As I keep saying, if we have two spinners, we don't need a fifth bowler. 2 seamers and 2 spinners on an Indian wicket can handle the workload just fine.

Yea agree with this for a short series. If it's greater than 3 Tests, I reckon we play 5 bowlers no matter the conditions. It won't improve the quality of the bowling, but it will preserve the fitness of the frontline bowlers, which will prevent us from being tonked in the last few games as a result of having a broken bowling attack.

Or we could play a number 6 who can bowl 10-15 overs a day.

 

[Pratters]

If Ashwin was fit, I would pick Ashwin and Mishra. If Ashwin was unfit, I would pick Harbhajan and Mishra. If both Ashwin and Mishra were unfit, I would pick Harbhajan and Ojha.

 

[honestbharani]

FTR, Harbhajan is my choice to replace Ashwin if he is not fit as well. And Jadeja over Binny.

 

[Pratters]

If Ashwin was fit, I would pick Ashwin and Mishra. If Ashwin was unfit, I would pick Harbhajan and Mishra. If both Ashwin and Mishra were unfit, I would pick Harbhajan and Ojha.

Regarding Harbhajan, the way he is bowling, if he shows maturity, he can bowl at a higher level than Ashwin even. Ashwin has been developing well over the past year or so. I am impressed the way he is progressing. However, some times, I notice that he starts pitching the ball a bit too full or doesn't bowl as well as I would like him to. He is still not the finished product. Harbhajan meanwhile, has all the experience in the world and isn't old either. When he bowls in his rhythm, he is quite fantastic. Obviously, I am not suggesting to replace Ashwin with Harbhajan. Right now, I would pick Ashwin over Harbhajan. Ashwin has been bowling really well. I just wanted to explain to expand on how much I rate Harbhajan. Will be interesting for me to see which Harbhajan we see over the next 2-3 years. There was a point during his excellent spell in the last game where Dhoni put a defensive field as he wanted to save the runs. I wondered whether Kohli would do that. Some players go well with some captains, particularly for spinners. Harbhajan was an aggressive guy whom Ganguly was able to utilise. Averages 26 under Ganguly but over 33 under Dhoni and over 40 under others. Harbhajan was bowling poorly when he was dropped a few years back but I hope he takes more test wickets.

EDIT - I do wonder whether we can play 2 off spinners if they are good enough in Ashwin and Harbhajan simultaneously.

 

[harsh.ag]

Yea he did bowl well there tbf. It is Mishra tho. He has done this before. Looked good for a handful of games, then returns back to being bleh. He hasn't put more than 2 series of consistently good bowling together yet. He is a rhythm bowler, who keeps losing his rhythm. I'd pick him over Jadeja as long as he is bowling well, but I don't think he has turned a corner and has finally found consistency.

Don't remember him ever playing 2 series consecutively tbh

 

[cnerd123]

So...that ODI bowling attack huh?

Bhuvi needs a rest. Mishra, Bhajji and Axar bowled well all series and shouldn't be crucified for 1 bad game. Moht isn't flash but its hard to think of a better alternative (don't say Yadav).

When does Shami return from injury?

 

[honestbharani]

What I Posted in the match thread:


Its amazing how our test lower order seems decent enough at times but the same guys in ODIs just do not cut the mustard. Ash/Mishy/Bhuvi are hopeless as big hitters. Bhajji is good at hitting but not longer knocks. Axar and the rest are just hacks. I really feel the time has come for us to seriously consider playing Jadeja and Binny as bowlers and then pick 3 other bowlers around them. Mohit seems no better than Binny with the ball most times, and we clearly need better hitters for our top 6 to hit out more confidently at any stage of the inning. And if Binny and Jadeja are not good enough, we need to go around looking for someone who can fill these roles, like Pandya, LR Shukla etc. It is time to admit our deficiencies and look for players who can plug those gaps than just play with the same side. I still feel at some stage we need to start opening with Rahane and Dhawan and plonk Rohit as one of our finishers at 5. I know he was tried earlier at that slot and it did not come off but he has gained experience now and honestly, we do not have a better power hitter now that MSD has finally hit decline since 2014.



Rahane
Dhawan
Kohli
Dhoni
Rohit
Raina
Binny
Jadeja
Bhajji
Shami
Umesh



When everyone is fit, I would rather see us play that sorta line up and see if our guys can hit with more freedom with what is at least on paper a "stronger" lower order.

 

[OverratedSanity]

No no no no no. Rohit needs to continue opening.

 

[Arjun]

Umesh Yadav, Pankaj Singh and Ishwar Pandey should be India's top three seamers, and should figure in every squad. Since Pankaj is injured and Ishant in good form, you may make a swap here.

The decision to drop Umesh is questionable. He's been the team's best performing seam bowler over the past 12 months (from this day), in terms of wickets- and lack of wickets let the South Africans score a total impossible to chase. Forget about economy rates- that's for the likes of Jadeja, Axar, Binny and Raina to handle.

There's nothing special about Mohit Sharma- he's only medium pace and has a poor strike rate- and is yet another green-top bully from North Zone, completely incompetent on flat decks. Rather, he's a huge step down from Umesh, Ishant and Pankaj.

Bhuvneshwar is finished as a strike bowler. He can revive his career only as a number seven batsman who can bowl plenty of overs or long spells, much like James Franklin.

Fixing the batting can wait. The Indians need to put together bowlers who get wickets every 30-32 deliveries to be competitive.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Some reactions are a bit over the top. The return of Shami and Ashwin will revive the bowling. It's not all lost cause.

 

[cnerd123]

Mohit is pretty good. Not as good as quicks fromother countries, but about as good as anyone we have tried in the recent past.

I feel India's poor bowling sometimes has more to do with bad strategies than any perceived lack of skill.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, for starters our short medium pacers never get as much bounce as bowlers taller can get when they hit the deck hard. Also, I feel the way we record bowling speed in cricket does not accurately show the challenge they pose to the batsmen. For instance, there are bowlers who get the ball going less slowly after pitching than others. We look at delivery speed but speed at impact for batsmen can be a more accurate depiction of the actual threat said bowlers provide. We cannot copy the baseball style of recording pitch speed at release simply because in baseball, they never bounce the ball. In cricket, the ball always slows down after pitching but it does so to varying degrees depending how strongly the ball was let go and how much effort was put behind it. If you see that side, I feel it will be clear how much our pace bowlers lack even if their delivery speeds match up pretty well to most other bowlers' around the world.

 

[CricAddict]

Sir update: 7/60 this innings scripting a superb turnaround for his team. 6 consecutive 5 wicket hauls in 6 innings. 5 daddies. Looks like its the world record in first class matches for consecutive hauls. No harm trying him now for the tests against SA when his confidence is high.

Sir update: 4th consecutive win for Saurashtra with Jadeja again playing a hand on it with a crucial fifty in the fourth innings winning the match for his team.

 

[CricAddict]

IPL draft pick for the 2 new franchises just got over. Watson was not picked by either of the teams. Rajkot looks stronger with 3 good allrounders, Mccullum and Raina.