India Or Pakistan

[tooextracool]

Well that begs the question: why didnt hick debut then but 3 years later ?

And yea...he dominated the domestic english scene......but not to the extent Lara did in his season with Warwickshire or the way Tendy dominated Indian FC scene...
Hick was just the most overrated thing to ever happen to cricket.

even though hick was averaging around 63 in domestic cricket when he made his debut?

 

[tooextracool]

its not pathans fault that he got straight into the team with out playing must FC

he played 32 FC games other than his international games, while thats not near as many as hick played, its still more than enough time to use it as a guide to how well someones performed at the fc level.

 

[biased indian]

he played 32 FC games other than his international games, while thats not near as many as hick played, its still more than enough time to use it as a guide to how well someones performed at the fc level.

i think what u have doen there is taken out his 11 test match to get the 32 which is not correct since he started playing for india in the tour of australia he must have played the tour games as well as he in this season he did play in Ranji trophy as well as duleep trophy u should remove those matches as well

 

[Sanz]

im fairly sure that many great cricketers have said that hick had potential to be great too, which was all part and parcel of why he was overhyped, .

I would like to know the names of Great Cricketers who said that about Hick after watching him in international cricket.

imran and akram(in particular) usually have no idea what they are talking about, the number of times that the both of them have said that inzamam is a better player than tendulkar is really uncountable.

Hahahaha, that was nice. Oh Btw I dont remember Akram ever saying that about Inzi. Inzi did have the potential to become as great as Tendulkar and I am sure had Imran been around another few years, we would have seen a much, much better Inzi.

how many other bowlers would still have been playing at the international level had they have performed as well as pathan has in international and domestic cricket.

Probably most of them...

 

[Richard]

Hick couldnt play for England because he wasnt qualified to at that time (Remember, he is Zimbabwean and played for Zimbabwe in the 1983 World Cup, so I think that may have extended his qualification period..I maybe wrong!!!)

Err... yeah.
Hick had just turned 17 during WC83 and didn't begin his top-level career until 1983\84.
He certainly didn't play there!

 

[Swervy]

Err... yeah.
Hick had just turned 17 during WC83 and didn't begin his top-level career until 1983\84.
He certainly didn't play there!

hehehe..actually I just had a look at the 83 World Cup scores..and I was wrong ..Hick didnt actually play in the world cup,but he was in the squad from what I can remember.

I do remember him playing for the Zimbabweans in 85(??) when they toured England and I think he scored a big double hundred vs Worcestershire (of all people) at the age of 18 or 19.

 

[tooextracool]

i think what u have doen there is taken out his 11 test match to get the 32 which is not correct since he started playing for india in the tour of australia he must have played the tour games as well as he in this season he did play in Ranji trophy as well as duleep trophy u should remove those matches as well

ok then remove the 2 first class games that hes played since his debut. not like that makes a considerable difference.

 

[tooextracool]

I would like to know the names of Great Cricketers who said that about Hick after watching him in international cricket.

no most people said that after watching him in domestic cricket.

Hahahaha, that was nice. Oh Btw I dont remember Akram ever saying that about Inzi. Inzi did have the potential to become as great as Tendulkar and I am sure had Imran been around another few years, we would have seen a much, much better Inzi.

ive heard akram say that many times in several interviews. and incase you didnt realise hick had potential to become a great player too, for one reason or another he just didnt convert that potential into performance at the international level. and im just curious, who are these great players bar akram who've said that pathan has the potential to be great?

Probably most of them...

because there are so many bowlers with averages off over 40 and over 30 at the domestic level playing test cricket arent they?

 

[Sanz]

no most people said that after watching him in domestic cricket.

So you agree that no one talked about Hick's potential after watching him bat at international level. I really couldn't care less about domestic cricket because there was one Mr. Raman Lamba who scored centuries after centuries in domestic cricket but was a failure @ International level.

ive heard akram say that many times in several interviews. and incase you didnt realise hick had potential to become a great player too, for one reason or another he just didnt convert that potential into performance at the international level. and im just curious, who are these great players bar akram who've said that pathan has the potential to be great?

I have followed the careers of both Inzamam & Sachin very closely and I have never heard Akram saying such claims. Can you provide any link, any article any thing which confirms that Akram has said so about Inzi & Sachin ? As for Hick's talen, well I was a kid when he was tonking bowlers around in county and I remember the hype, but as I said I read about many cricketers making runs in domestic cricket in India and hardly made any impact in International cricket. As for players (beside akram ) talking about Pathan's potential, how about Imran Khan himself ( http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2004/oct/12imran.htm?zcc=ar ) or for that matter Kapildev.

because there are so many bowlers with averages off over 40 and over 30 at the domestic level playing test cricket arent they?

and who says Irfan averages in 40+ ??

 

[Swervy]

So you agree that no one talked about Hick's potential after watching him bat at international level. I really couldn't care less about domestic cricket because there was one Mr. Raman Lamba who scored centuries after centuries in domestic cricket but was a failure @ International level.



I have followed the careers of both Inzamam & Sachin very closely and I have never heard Akram saying such claims. Can you provide any link, any article any thing which confirms that Akram has said so about Inzi & Sachin ? As for Hick's talen, well I was a kid when he was tonking bowlers around in county and I remember the hype, but as I said I read about many cricketers making runs in domestic cricket in India and hardly made any impact in International cricket. As for players (beside akram ) talking about Pathan's potential, how about Imran Khan himself ( http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2004/oct/12imran.htm?zcc=ar ) or for that matter Kapildev.



and who says Irfan averages in 40+ ??

they was a big difference between scoring big runs in England in the 80's and scoring big runs in India in the 80's though

 

[Sanz]

No doubt about that, but it would be interesting to know how often Hick played against those International players and how well he did against them. Personally I dont recollect Hick smashing any of the international bowlers around.

Actually I did little bit of reasearch myself and here is what I found, Bowlers he made his famous 405 against - NA Mallender,AN Jones,CH Dredge,GD Rose,PM Roebuck &VJ Marks.

I dont see this bowling any better than the Bangars & Sharmas of Ranji trophy. For me the Hick discussion is Closed.If you still are not convinced and think that Hick really played great against quality international bowlers(who played in County) then please feel free to browse

http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Players/1/1988/First-Class_Matches.html

 

[honestbharani]

Okay, TEC, I accept that some former greats may have predicted Hick to be the modern Bradman, but the fact remains that almost all of them were English.... With Pathan, you have guys like Imran, Wasim, Bruce Reid, Dennis Lillee, Dean Jones, Michael Slater, Atherton, Barry Richards and the whole committee who voted him as the ICC emerging player of the year..... I think his hype is more justifiable than Hick's.....(That I think both of them should have never been hyped this big is another story.)

 

[tooextracool]

No doubt about that, but it would be interesting to know how often Hick played against those International players and how well he did against them. Personally I dont recollect Hick smashing any of the international bowlers around.

Actually I did little bit of reasearch myself and here is what I found, Bowlers he made his famous 405 against - NA Mallender,AN Jones,CH Dredge,GD Rose,PM Roebuck &VJ Marks.

I dont see this bowling any better than the Bangars & Sharmas of Ranji trophy. For me the Hick discussion is Closed.If you still are not convinced and think that Hick really played great against quality international bowlers(who played in County) then please feel free to browse

http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Players/1/1988/First-Class_Matches.html

umm......
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Scorecards/f/39/f39667.html - 146 vs warwickshire containing allan donald in 92.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Scorecards/f/39/f39463.html - 70 vs warwickshire containing donald on what seems to be a tricky pitch where donald had figures of 5/69.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Scorecards/f/40/f40175.html - 182 vs surrey containing his old nemesis waqar younis and martin bicknell
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Scorecards/f/41/f41329.html - 152 vs lancashire containing wasim akram
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Scorecards/f/40/f40205.html - 90 and 91 against lancashire containing wasim akram.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/f/37/f37734.html - 111 against Northamptonshire containing curtly ambrose.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/f/36/f36050.html - 227 against Nottinghamshire that included richard hadlee.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/f/40/f40634.html - 150 vs Gloucestershire containing courteney walsh.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/f/37/f37115.html - 172 vs patterson, walsh, ambrose & bishop.
but then i guess that these bowlers are just as good as the bangars and sharmas.

and really even the attack that lara scored 501 could be dismissed as rubbish, its quite clear that you can only score that much when you come across rubbish bowlers.

 

[tooextracool]

Okay, TEC, I accept that some former greats may have predicted Hick to be the modern Bradman, but the fact remains that almost all of them were English....

what do you expect? how many of other people got to watch him bat in domestic cricket where he made almost all of his impact?

With Pathan, you have guys like Imran, Wasim, Bruce Reid, Dennis Lillee, Dean Jones, Michael Slater, Atherton, Barry Richards and the whole committee who voted him as the ICC emerging player of the year..... I think his hype is more justifiable than Hick's.....(That I think both of them should have never been hyped this big is another story.)

i really dont think that all those people have said that he has the potential to be greats, they've merely said that hes got potential to be good, hence the award. hick was one of wisden's 5 players of the year in 1986, if that says something. i really dont see how someone whos never accomplished anything in either form of the game deserves to be hyped up, i dont deny that hick shouldnt have been hyped up that much either, personally i dont hype up players unless they perform, but seriously if someone is averaging 63 in domestic cricket after an extended run(5-6 years?) at the domestic level do you think that the media wont hype up this person? pathan is hyped up because he bowls like a former great, now really thats quite foolish indeed.

 

[tooextracool]

So you agree that no one talked about Hick's potential after watching him bat at international level.

yes because he had 3 very mediocre series at the start of his career. there was still talk about him having the potential to become a very very good player after his 178 against india which was easily one of his best innings, and certainly he had a consistent patch after that during which people thought that maybe just maybe he might convert his domestic form to the intl level. unfortunately he had 4 poor games in 96, and even though he was easily one of their best players over the previous 3 years, he was dropped, and never given a consistent run after that.

I really couldn't care less about domestic cricket because there was one Mr. Raman Lamba who scored centuries after centuries in domestic cricket but was a failure @ International level. .

who had the following seasons before making his debut:
1978-79 (India) 1 1 0 38 38 38.00 0 0 0
1980-81 (India) 7 12 1 415 166 37.72 1 2 2
1981-82 (India) 8 12 1 527 205* 47.90 1 2 1
1982-83 (India) 6 10 2 402 107* 50.25 1 2 3
1983-84 (India) 9 16 1 464 150 30.93 1 2 12
1984-85 (India) 4 5 0 114 84 22.80 0 1 3
1985-86 (India) 7 11 1 691 231 69.10 3 2 4
1986 (England) 5 7 0 301 116 43.00 1 2 1
1986-87 (India) 12 15 1 882 131 63.00 5

i dont think ever had a poor season in county record before he made his debut, and he was averaging about 63 in Fc cricket.

I have followed the careers of both Inzamam & Sachin very closely and I have never heard Akram saying such claims. Can you provide any link, any article any thing which confirms that Akram has said so about Inzi & Sachin ?

no unfortunately i cant, ive looked all over the net but theres no article about any of the interviews that happened in 97-98. nonetheless even you would have heard the number of times ramiz raja has called inzamam better than tendulkar?

As for Hick's talen, well I was a kid when he was tonking bowlers around in county and I remember the hype, but as I said I read about many cricketers making runs in domestic cricket in India and hardly made any impact in International cricket. As for players (beside akram ) talking about Pathan's potential, how about Imran Khan himself ( http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2004/oct/12imran.htm?zcc=ar ) or for that matter Kapildev.

well all i can say is that they;ve all added to the hype that he doesnt deserve. and they will fall flat on their faces if he doesnt perform sooner or later. imran really has made some ludicrous comments in the past, such as inzy being as good as richards and being the best player of fast bowlers hes seen since richards and what not.

and who says Irfan averages in 40+ ??

so whats his average when you remove non test class opposition?

 

[12th Man]

pakistan

 

[PAKMAN]

pakistan

all the way

 

[SJS]

all the way

All the best

I hope sachin gets his 35th 100 out of the way and of course that India wins

 

[sledger]

All the best

I hope sachin gets his 35th 100 out of the way and of course that India wins

i believe that he will, come on india

 

[Sanz]

umm......
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Scorecards/f/39/f39667.html - 146 vs warwickshire containing allan donald in 92.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Scorecards/f/39/f39463.html - 70 vs warwickshire containing donald on what seems to be a tricky pitch where donald had figures of 5/69.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Scorecards/f/40/f40175.html - 182 vs surrey containing his old nemesis waqar younis and martin bicknell
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Scorecards/f/41/f41329.html - 152 vs lancashire containing wasim akram
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Worcestershire/Scorecards/f/40/f40205.html - 90 and 91 against lancashire containing wasim akram.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/f/37/f37734.html - 111 against Northamptonshire containing curtly ambrose.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/f/36/f36050.html - 227 against Nottinghamshire that included richard hadlee.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/f/40/f40634.html - 150 vs Gloucestershire containing courteney walsh.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/f/37/f37115.html - 172 vs patterson, walsh, ambrose & bishop.
but then i guess that these bowlers are just as good as the bangars and sharmas.

and really even the attack that lara scored 501 could be dismissed as rubbish, its quite clear that you can only score that much when you come across rubbish bowlers.

err how many innings there 10 ?? out of 400+ matches ?? Really some record..wow I am impressed. Not to forget that most of the innings are post his international debut, the hype bubble was burst by then.
Oh and btw if you have not noticed, none of those attacks are international class despite the presence of names like Donald, Wasim, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh etc. or are you telling us that Hick faced a combined attack of Walsh,Ambrose, Wasim,Waqar,Hick together in one single match ??

About, Lara's 501 was made against rubbish attack , well yeah.VV Nimbalkar scored 443 runs in some Ranji match and that really means sh!t to me. It may mean a lot to you and you can declare him the next Hutton, but I wont. For me Internationals are the real deal.