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Imran vs Wasim

Complete the attack

  • Total voters
    14
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
Not getting involved in that discussion, as I said, will leave it to the forum.

One change though that I have started to consider is Knott over Gilchrist.

1. With that batting line up, do we need the extra batting or do we go with the better keeper.

2. As was recently discussed in another thread, considering Gilly's era and the situations in which he often came in, do we believe he was that much better than Knott?

As I said, just a thought, but it's an argument I've seen in these types of discussions, especially an article I read for the Cricinfo colab, and it's the direction the Wisden team took with theirs. It was surprisingly also the direction Kimber and Bumble took in the XI that they are (slowly) releasing. The conclusion they came to wasn't without merit, not to mention that Warne was apparently not always thrilled by Gilchrist's efforts behind the stumps.
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I get that but Gillys batting was particularly suited to the no.7 role for counterattack with the tail in a way only Pant seems capable of.

When Kimber interviewed Sanga (good interview btw) Sanga mentions that if he had to bat at Gillys position rather than no.3 he would have been a very different batter since he wouldn't have the mindset for big partnerships.

Interestingly, he also says that his lower batting average in early career is more due to the physical toll of keeping and batting no.3
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
subshakerz said:
I get that but Gillys batting was particularly suited to the no.7 role for counterattack with the tail in a way only Pant seems capable of.

When Kimber interviewed Sanga (good interview btw) Sanga mentions that if he had to bat at Gillys position rather than no.3 he would have been a very different batter since he wouldn't have the mindset for big partnerships.

Interestingly, he also says that his lower batting average in early career is more due to the physical toll of keeping and batting no.3
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I get that, but who would you prefer in a crisis and of course again, Knotty was better with the gloves.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Prince EWS said:
I pick Imran because I mostly see it as an exercise of picking the best players in some reasonable balance. I used to think Imran was greatest Test cricketer of all time, and while I now think I was taking things a bit far by rating him ahead of Bradman I've still got him as a pretty firm #2, so I'm just pretty determined to find him a spot.

This is a ceremonial team of the greatest cricketers to hang on the wall rather than a lineup that's going to take the field, so I think I just care a little bit less about balance concerns than some other people. I'm definitely also in the 'there's actually not as much difference in quality between the ATG quicks as we trick ourselves into thinking by overanalysing everything' camp, so if I let myself be infected by what I call atgbrain I'd probably think about having Wasim in there because his attributes would balance the attack better. I do think as we go further up levels that secondary skills start dropping off so Imran and Wasim might not average that much differently with the bat in some imaginary higher level up (think Woakes vs Starc with the bat in going from domestic FC to Tests for example) - but I care more about respecting what they did in actual Tests in that real level that mattered even when creating imaginary lineups, and Imran was just way better than Wasim there.
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Well said, and actually helped me make up my mind.

I also agree that if it's based on honors, then it's easily Hobbs and Barnes in there and there's no need to look at balance.

As I've always said, I look at it differently and see it as if we're selecting a team to take the field. Just more fun and dynamic that way.

Congrats on the great win by Australia btw.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Johan said:
my second XI would be

1. Sunil Gavaskar
2. Herbert Sutcliffe
3. Sir Walter Hammonds
4. Steven Smith
5. Brian Lara
6. Jacques Kallis
7. Alan Knott
8. Imran Khan (C)
9. Wasim Akram
10. Dale Steyn
11. Muttiah Muralitharan

so, quite a bit different lol
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Middle order identical to mine. 👍🏽
 
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

State 12th Man
Johan said:
1. Len Hutton
2. Jack Hobbs
3. Donald Bradman
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. IVA Richards
6. Garfield Sobers
7. Adam Gilchrist (W.K)
8. Richard Hadlee
9. Shane Warne
10. Malcolm Marshall
11. Glenn McGrath

think I put Hadlee in the one spot where Imran can make it.
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My team is almost similar
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
Because at the end of the day it's still an all rounder position and Gilly and Knott threads that needle perfectly.

Pure keeping though, Healy was better than Russell. Best I've seen.
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Healy responsible for letting two overseas series wins slip from his fingers unforgiveable.
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
kyear2 said:
Help me finish my team. Currently on Wasim but Subz seems to think I'm crazy. Last time I did this was coerced in multiple options I didn't want, and the last time we had a vote with these two it was literally tied.

This scenario will also very likely come up when we do our overall AT team vote, so this can be a preview.

I may also throw in Steyn for the discussion, but really believe an AT world team should have more than one player from the SC.

So the premise is the Marshall, McGrath and Warne are already selected. Who best fits in and gives the team the best chance to win.

Pros.

Wasim
1. Greatest old ball bowler, if it's reversing or not.
2. Has the ability to swing the ball both ways conventionally or using reverse, and seen as the arguably the most skillful bowler ever.
3. LH variety can cause problems and create rough to aim at.
4. Useful no. 8 batsman
5. Selection would mean bowlers from 3 different decades.
6. Made the Cricinfo and Wisden all time XIs

Imran
1. One of best proponents of reverse swing
2. Best ever lower order bat
3. Ability to bat at 7 allows for keeper flexibility or even an extra spinner.

The basic argument being with a batting line up this strong, do we need to focus on batting in the tail, especially with Marshall and Warne there as bowlers who could bat, especially in a crisis.
Wasim is more skilled overall and better with the old ball, the primary job. Also a much better fielder.
Subz would argue, and I'm sure he will, that more batting though, is always welcome.

Not factoring in captaincy as that's Bradman job.

Please good faith arguments, as any selection panel would, and I'll try to stay out of it.

Goal is to have the absolute best possible team from the history of the game to take the field (let's say vs a current all world XI) with all bases covered, and I think I've done that with the other 10 spots.
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Imran is not even Asia's best ever lower order batsman. Kapil was far better.
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
With the locked in picks you have already, I'm choosing Imran for his batting without much hesitation.

Steyn, us of course tempting, but especially if I am guaranteed peak Imran, I simply don't see myself losing much at all by picking him, and I gain meaningful runs regardless of opposition bowling quality, as Imran was far more than just a handy lower order bat.
 
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