ICC Greatest Test Team

[archie mac]

hmmm....well some times batsmen may be dropped or picked because of conditions too but you do have a point I suppose

Personally I would choose it more on a pitch by pitch basis

But agree would not choose Lillee for an all time team for SC

 

[Lillian Thomson]

He is. Something's wrong if you are pining for him thoguh

At forum low points such as now he was at best interesting and at worst at least still provided comedy value. The current intake are a bit dense. Next time I return I expect to see a vast improvement. I might come back and gloat if we beat Tranmere in the first round of the cup.

Cheers.

 

[Prince EWS]

In the first case Sehwag is a must pick almost for me, but even in the second case don't know why actual performances should ignored against varying attacks and picking Sehwag be considered Taboo or out of question.

Sometimes it's just a bit of a coincidence though; I'd just pick my best two openers everywhere. I can definitely see the merit in factoring in pitch conditions for the balance of the team and the bowlers chosen, but I don't really like doing it for batsmen a lot. If it's a normal Test team that will be playing all over the world, I'm not going to drop one of my openers for a tour just because another bloke has a better record in that region, especially when it's a stupid cross-era hypothetical game such as this one. I'd prefer to just compare their records and see who was comparatively more valuable in their era, and go with that bloke.

Sehwag has an awesome record in the subcontinent so if you're picking a team based purely on subcontinent performances, then he's in it. I wouldn't pick such a team to actually play a match in the subcontinent though because, as I said, a lot of it is just coincidence IMO. How far do you take it? If we discover that Sehwag actually just 21 in Tests that start on a Wednesday, do we factor that in as well should this theoretical subcontinent match start on a Wednesday? If Hobbs average 104 in Tests that coincide with Manchester United leading the EPL, do we factor that in too? Obviously those examples are a bit different as they are pure voodoo as opposed to pitch differences which do make a significant difference, but I think some of the more specific analyses I've seen here based on pretty small sample sizes are largely 'voodoo' as well. You can dissect a player's record too much and lose context from the overall picture of their career, and I think we do a lot of this on CricketWeb when it comes to performances in certain countries.

 

[smash84]

wow........interesting post there from PEWS.....a good one in a long time

 

[zaremba]

Sometimes it's just a bit of a coincidence though; I'd just pick my best two openers everywhere. I can definitely see the merit in factoring in pitch conditions for the balance of the team and the bowlers chosen, but I don't really like doing it for batsmen a lot. If it's a normal Test team that will be playing all over the world, I'm not going to drop one of my openers for a tour just because another bloke has a better record in that region, especially when it's a stupid cross-era hypothetical game such as this one. I'd prefer to just compare their records and see who was comparatively more valuable in their era, and go with that bloke.

Sehwag has an awesome record in the subcontinent so if you're picking a team based purely on subcontinent performances, then he's in it. I wouldn't pick such a team to actually play a match in the subcontinent though because, as I said, a lot of it is just coincidence IMO. How far do you take it? If we discover that Sehwag actually just 21 in Tests that start on a Wednesday, do we factor that in as well should this theoretical subcontinent match start on a Wednesday? If Hobbs average 104 in Tests that coincide with Manchester United leading the EPL, do we factor that in too? Obviously those examples are a bit different as they are pure voodoo as opposed to pitch differences which do make a significant difference, but I think some of the more specific analyses I've seen here based on pretty small sample sizes are largely 'voodoo' as well. You can dissect a player's record too much and lose context from the overall picture of their career, and I think we do a lot of this on CricketWeb when it comes to performances in certain countries.

Bloody excellent post.

 

[99.94]

xi

All time XI


Herbert Sutcliffe
Sunil Gavaskar
Donald Bradman
Walter Hammond
Brian Lara
Garfield Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Curtley Ambrose
Muttiah Muralidaran

Thought long and hard for the bowling department but wanted an attack with enough contrast and balance, the bounce and aggression from ambrose, reverse left arm swing with akram and with the new ball the traditional gentleman fast bowler, not too shabby, not to forgot the unorthodox approach of muralitharn and medium/slow pace added by sobers

 

[GIMH]

Well done EWS

 

[Burgey]

All time XI


Herbert Sutcliffe
Sunil Gavaskar
Donald Bradman
Walter Hammond
Brian Lara
Garfield Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Curtley Ambrose
Muttiah Muralidaran

Thought long and hard for the bowling department but wanted an attack with enough contrast and balance, the bounce and aggression from ambrose, reverse left arm swing with akram and with the new ball the traditional gentleman fast bowler, not too shabby, not to forgot the unorthodox approach of muralitharn and medium/slow pace added by sobers

Numbers 5-10 all lefties

 

[99.94]

Numbers 5-10 all lefties

good point! dont think its a major issue, but never noticed it really
you think it would be a problem?

 

[smash84]

All time XI


Herbert Sutcliffe
Sunil Gavaskar
Donald Bradman
Walter Hammond
Brian Lara
Garfield Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Curtley Ambrose
Muttiah Muralidaran

Thought long and hard for the bowling department but wanted an attack with enough contrast and balance, the bounce and aggression from ambrose, reverse left arm swing with akram and with the new ball the traditional gentleman fast bowler, not too shabby, not to forgot the unorthodox approach of muralitharn and medium/slow pace added by sobers

pretty good team

 

[Burgey]

good point! dont think its a major issue, but never noticed it really
you think it would be a problem?

Oh not at all. They're all great players. Was just an observation

It's a fine side.

 

[archie mac]

All time XI


Herbert Sutcliffe
Sunil Gavaskar
Donald Bradman
Walter Hammond
Brian Lara
Garfield Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Curtley Ambrose
Muttiah Muralidaran

Thought long and hard for the bowling department but wanted an attack with enough contrast and balance, the bounce and aggression from ambrose, reverse left arm swing with akram and with the new ball the traditional gentleman fast bowler, not too shabby, not to forgot the unorthodox approach of muralitharn and medium/slow pace added by sobers

Sutcliffe over Hobbs? Usually only see that from a Yorkshire supporter

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

good point! dont think its a major issue, but never noticed it really
you think it would be a problem?

Well, in Lara and Sir Gary, you've got two ATG players of spin.

But I imagine Gilly, Hadlee et. al. would find it difficult on a wearing wicket facing a spinner turning into them out of the rough. I'd expect a Gupte, a Warne, a Bedi, a Grimmett or a Qadir to give them quite a few headaches in such conditions.

Having said that, your top six are so good that no one after Gilly may be required to bat!

 

[99.94]

Well, in Lara and Sir Gary, you've got two ATG players of spin.

But I imagine Gilly, Hadlee et. al. would find it difficult on a wearing wicket facing a spinner turning into them out of the rough. I'd expect a Gupte, a Warne, a Bedi, a Grimmett or a Qadir to give them quite a few headaches in such conditions.

Having said that, your top six are so good that no one after Gilly may be required to bat!

hmm interest point you coin, at one point i was considering removing Lara for Warne, the right hander might remove that problem as I still feel my top 5 (with sobers replacing lara at 5) would be enough batting plus a few allrounders and gilly for batting!

 

[99.94]

Sutcliffe over Hobbs? Usually only see that from a Yorkshire supporter

Funny you mention that, my great grandfather who was alive around 10 years ago was the reason I got into cricket! He would tell me stories of him growing up in England and Yorkshire etc in the early 1900's and one man he spoke so highly of was Sutcliffe, mind you this was before the likes of Bradman came onto the stage! He had seen him first at Headingley and saw great partnerships with Holmes (mind you he spoke highly of Hobbs as well,but the consensus was he just favoured sutcliffe a bit more)

 

[archie mac]

Funny you mention that, my great grandfather who was alive around 10 years ago was the reason I got into cricket! He would tell me stories of him growing up in England and Yorkshire etc in the early 1900's and one man he spoke so highly of was Sutcliffe, mind you this was before the likes of Bradman came onto the stage! He had seen him first at Headingley and saw great partnerships with Holmes (mind you he spoke highly of Hobbs as well,but the consensus was he just favoured sutcliffe a bit more)

Reminds me of the Cardus story when he was sitting behind two Yorkshire old chaps at a county game. The two were picking an England team and by the time they had finished they had picked the Yorkshire XI.

Cardus lent over and said surely you will have to include Hobbs?

The two agreed he was a fine batsman but on considering their position, gravely shook their heads and informed Cardus they could find no spot in the XI for him

 

[smash84]

haha.....nice anecdote Archie

 

[archie mac]

haha.....nice anecdote Archie

Yes one of my favourites, but tbf it is much better in the words of Cardus. I should not have been so lazy and searched for the original

 

[smash84]

of course difficult to compare pretty much anyone with Cardus. Arguably the finest cricket writer ever

 

[archie mac]

of course difficult to compare pretty much anyone with Cardus. Arguably the finest cricket writer ever

No argument from me