Ian Botham vs Fred Trueman

[sayon basak]

amazing pace, WACA is made for him, he also has 274 @ 22.23 barring his debut series (I counted WSC), also like 48 strike rate, pretty underrated because of his final tally, @capt_Luffy cope.

Luffy actually rates Holding pretty highly, equal to Garner ig.

 

[Thala_0710]

Luffy actually rates Holding pretty highly, equal to Garner ig.

How is that high?

 

[capt_Luffy]

How is that high?

Don't think it's low to though

 

[Thala_0710]

Don't think it's low to though

Fair (unless you rate both Garner/Holding too low)

 

[Johan]

@capt_Luffy Holding > Lindwall btw

 

[capt_Luffy]

Fair (unless you rate both Garner/Holding too low)

I rate them 11th and 12th among pacers. On par with Lillee and Lindwall (at the 2 ends)

 

[sayon basak]

How is that high?

Didn't mean that, I was saying that he rates Holding fairly.

 

[capt_Luffy]

@capt_Luffy Holding > Lindwall btw

Agreed. Holding has an ATG series (and record) in each of Aus, Eng and Ind. That's pretty great

 

[Johan]

Agreed. Holding has an ATG series (and record) in each of Aus, Eng and Ind. That's pretty great

+ had generally more challenging wickets, Lindwall had quite a few wet ones while afaik Holding had like one

 

[DrWolverine]

Luffy actually rates Holding pretty highly, equal to Garner ig.

Holding has a great record against everyone and everywhere he played except against/in NZ.

Michael Holding has an all time great series in England, Australia and India. Out of 15 series he played in his career, he averages below 25 in 11 of them

 

[kyear2]

nah, don't see that at all. I got Donald, Holding, Garner, Lillee and Trueman on the same tier, Wasim doesn't diffrentiate himself from that tier

Imran, Donald, Lillee, Holding, Garner, Wasim, Lindwall all in the same tier.

Guess no reason why Trueman should be much lower.

But which of those bowlers were dropped with the level of regularity that he was, or performed somewhat below par away like he did? Well a couple of the latter, but yeah.

 

[DrWolverine]

Imran, Donald, Lillee, Holding, Garner, Wasim, Lindwall all in the same tier.

I have Ambrose in the same tier as well.
Maybe higher than almost all of them but same tier.

 

[Johan]

But which of those bowlers were dropped with the level of regularity that he was, or performed somewhat below par away like he did? Well a couple of the latter, but yeah.

Wasim, and if they're as blatantly anti establishment as Trueman was, then just about any of them

 

[kyear2]

amazing pace, WACA is made for him, he also has 274 @ 22.23 barring his debut series (I counted WSC), also like 48 strike rate, pretty underrated because of his final tally, @capt_Luffy cope.

The only negative to be found re Holding is his inability to stay healthy. Don't see how he's below any of the names I referenced.

 

[Johan]

all in all, I don't see a reason to have Trueman behind Lillee or Wasim

 

[kyear2]

Akram is overrated.

Wasim to be fair brings skills to the table that no one else had.

Best purveyor of the old ball, ability to move it both ways, reverse.

 

[kyear2]

Luffy actually rates Holding pretty highly, equal to Garner ig.

I rate him slightly above Garner

 

[kyear2]

Holding has a great record against everyone and everywhere he played except against/in NZ.

Michael Holding has an all time great series in England, Australia and India. Out of 15 series he played in his career, he averages below 25 in 11 of them

And the least said about that NZ series the better.

 

[DrWolverine]

Pretty much every great fast bowler with the exception of Marshall have some obvious flaw in his record

 

[Johan]

all in all, I don't see a reason to have Trueman behind Lillee or Wasim

Trueman = Lillee for me