Ian Botham vs Dennis Lillee

[Johan]

I personally think as a corridor seam bowler his skillset wasn't ideally suited for the SC except for the more seaming wickets.

He got wickets in Pakistan in 1990 but those were the most pace friendly wickets in Pakistan history. Then got hammered in 97.

Eh I won't equate the Pakistani wickets of the time to the Indian ones, Pakistani ones were dead while the indian ones had something in them for pacers for day 1, I think Ambrose over a series can manage it in India if he puts extra effort/stock in his leg cutter.

Not going to debate further on Trueman, but I will just say the following two points:

- I don't want you to think I am hardliner on slightly higher averages. I am willing to excuse those averages if it's pitches that are unusually dead (for example Imran took 17 wickets@26 in NZ in four drawn dead tests in which Hadlee was neutralised and Kyear penalises him for that) and give credit to those slightly higher averages which still come at a good wicket haul, like Lillee or Trueman in WI. Was only saying that as best showings it's a bit below par, not that they are bad themselves. Just clarifying.

- If you can speculate how Trueman would do on better wickets away or Ambrose in India, we can do that with Lillee in SC too.

Anyways good chat.

I don't hold Lillee's record against him in Asia, people like to pretend but the truth is that in early 70s Indians were still kind of hopeless against pace. Bob Willis, Chris Old, Geoffrey Arnold etc all tore it up in India, Andy Roberts also found India very easy to bowl in, It'd be kinda insane if all the pacers of the generation except the best find success on those wickets. Pakistan...that one I'm not sure about, great batting, very flat wickets, cheating umpires but one country isn't enough to make me downgrade him anyway.

anyway, good talk.

 

[Johan]

@Johan @Coronis @subshakerz
After Don Bradman
Who are the other players, comes in the all time test xi without any competition or argument?

Garfield Sobers
John Berry Hobbs

 

[Coronis]

Garfield Sobers
John Berry Hobbs

I wouldn’t consider Hobbs beyond argument. I’ve definitely seen “reputable” XIs with Hutton and Gavaskar.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I wouldn’t consider Hobbs beyond argument. I’ve definitely seen “reputable” XIs with Hutton and Gavaskar.

How about ones with Barry Richards??

 

[Coronis]

How about ones with Barry Richards??

We really don’t need to do that. I don’t need the exact same post yet again.

 

[capt_Luffy]

We really don’t need to do that. I don’t need the exact same post yet again.

Why?? They are kinda cute in a very try hard way.......

(Btw started Simpsons, will tell you how I feel after I finish S2)

 

[Johan]

I wouldn’t consider Hobbs beyond argument. I’ve definitely seen “reputable” XIs with Hutton and Gavaskar.

I mean I've seen some reputable XIs where Hammond play witb Kallis instead of Sobers there too

 

[DrWolverine]

If Hobbs can be considered an automatic pick, then Sydney Barnes should be considered as well.

 

[Johan]

If Hobbs can be considered an automatic pick, then Sydney Barnes should be considered as well.

No because Hobbs is better than Barnes

 

[Coronis]

I mean I've seen some reputable XIs where Hammond play witb Kallis instead of Sobers there too

Really? Which XIs don’t have Sobers? Source needed please

 

[Johan]

Really? Which XIs don’t have Sobers? Source needed please

 

[DrWolverine]

Really? Which XIs don’t have Sobers? Source needed please

 

[Coronis]

View attachment 46587

I don’t know who that is, but they deserve to burn with at least half that XI.

 

[Johan]

I forgot who Adam Lyth was

 

[Coronis]

I forgot who Adam Lyth was

tbf

Adam Lyth in non test FC 230 matches 383 innings 14591 @ 39.98 37 tons 74 fifties
Zak Crawley in non test FC 73 matches 128 innings 4064 @ 33.04 7 tons 23 fifties

Lyth played 7 tests

Lyth 7 tests 13 innings 265 @ 20.38 1 ton
Crawley 7 tests 11 innings 314 @ 28.54 3 fifties

Is Lyth really that much worse than Crawley?

 

[Johan]

tbf

Adam Lyth in non test FC 230 matches 383 innings 14591 @ 39.98 37 tons 74 fifties
Zak Crawley in non test FC 73 matches 128 innings 4064 @ 33.04 7 tons 23 fifties

Lyth played 7 tests

Lyth 7 tests 13 innings 265 @ 20.38 1 ton
Crawley 7 tests 11 innings 314 @ 28.54 3 fifties

Is Lyth really that much worse than Crawley?

Yes.

 

[Coronis]

Yes.

Idk man small sample size. Over a large sample size Lyth has more success.

Fun fact: in 2014 Lyth scored as many centuries as Crawley has in his entire FC career

 

[capt_Luffy]

Idk man small sample size. Over a large sample size Lyth has more success.

Fun fact: in 2014 Lyth scored as many centuries as Crawley has in his entire FC career

I sometimes feel as if Crawley kicked your firstborn or declared himself superior to Herbert Sutcliffe.

 

[Johan]

Coronis should channel all his Compton, Root and Trueman hate into Crawley, actual nepo baby.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

@Johan @Coronis @subshakerz
After Don Bradman
Who are the other players, comes in the all time test xi without any competition or argument?

Gilchrist imo