hussain vs fleming?

[tooextracool]

Waugh was similarly fortunate, but he certainly did take the same core of players that Taylor had, and fashioned them from being the world number one team, to being the worlds number one team by a huge magin.

waugh for me was never really an "intelligent" captain as u could say fleming and hussain were and that was evident with some of those horrendous field placings against india. for me the whole australian team didnt even have a plan on how to bowl to each player...it was left to the bowler to just try and blast out the batsman.
that being said waugh did provide that "never say die" attitude that is so often associated with him, to the entire team. he led from the front and every player in the team respected him. its no surprise when in an interview before the ind tour justin langer said that if steve waugh asked him to drive into a brick wall, he would do it.
so on the whole i would say he was a decent captain but i wouldnt consider him anything special.

 

[marc71178]

well i am going to say that Ganguly has been fortunate to have the most talented Indian team of all time playing whilst he has been captain.

I think there's others had broadly the same amount of talent in recent years, who haven't been as successful in getting them to be a team as Saurav.

 

[Swervy]

I think there's others had broadly the same amount of talent in recent years, who haven't been as successful in getting them to be a team as Saurav.

i cannot remember a time when India have had as much talent as they have had in the past year or so.

 

[marc71178]

The batting line-up has been there for a fair while now.

 

[V Reddy]

well i am going to say that Ganguly has been fortunate to have the most talented Indian team of all time playing whilst he has been captain.

But he made that team. I doubt whether Sehwag, Yuvraj, Kaif, Harb, Patel,AA , Zaheer,etc,. would be playing now without Ganguly being the captain. Basically he kept on persisting with them even though they failed during their early matches.

 

[PY]

I think there's others had broadly the same amount of talent in recent years, who haven't been as successful in getting them to be a team as Saurav.

Yet Dravid et al have performed much better recently. Is that down to the captain or just the players maturing?

In some ways, batting IMO isn't as affected by the captain nearly as much as the bowling and fielding as the captain is out there with them often. However, has Ganguly had a huge impact on the training and preparation of the Indian team?

The way he fields, I'd guess not.

 

[anzac]

Whilst I've already stated that it wasn't a popularity contest, neither was it a one-sided dictatorship. Consequently, the whole idea of having a pre-game meeting to discuss aspects of the opposition strikes me as just plain common sense.

It is very difficult to judge captains - look at the likes of Steve Waugh and to a lesser extent Sourav Ganguly. Both have presided over a period of (relative) success for their sides, but were/are they great captains or merely fortunate to be captains of very good/great sides?

I guess we'll never really know.

oh I agree with both your points...........

so far as my comment goes I was just reflecting that the meeting seemed indecisive so far as a definative gameplan went, as he later states that they give Waugh the short stuff to which he was uncomfortable but never got out too! Then the reference to groundhog day & the admission of not being able to do anything about it strikes me of being slightly defeatist, and a good indication as to why AUS have the wood on ENG in the Ashes series..........

hence my observation that neither point to me is an endorsement of good Captaincy...............

so far as your 2nd point goes their resources and established lineups makes for successful Captaincy if you can use those resources correctly, rather than perhaps being a great Captain.........

 

[Swervy]

But he made that team. I doubt whether Sehwag, Yuvraj, Kaif, Harb, Patel,AA , Zaheer,etc,. would be playing now without Ganguly being the captain. Basically he kept on persisting with them even though they failed during their early matches.

talking like that suggests that Ganguly was with these players when they were young, personally trained and coached them,and single handedly selected these players...of course this was not the case

 

[anzac]

Yet Dravid et al have performed much better recently. Is that down to the captain or just the players maturing?

or in India's case could it be the influence of one John Wright???????????

the core of this Indian squad has been around for some time with the majority of players making their debut prior to Wright's appointment, yet during his tenure they have started to become both more consistant & competitive away from the sub continent, with the newer players lifting the standard of effort in their fielding.........

 

[Swervy]

or in India's case could it be the influence of one John Wright???????????

the core of this Indian squad has been around for some time with the majority of players making their debut prior to Wright's appointment, yet during his tenure they have started to become both more consistant & competitive away from the sub continent, with the newer players lifting the standard of effort in their fielding.........

yes...i think Wright has a lot more influence on the performance of these players than ganguly has

 

[anzac]

But he made that team. I doubt whether Sehwag, Yuvraj, Kaif, Harb, Patel,AA , Zaheer,etc,. would be playing now without Ganguly being the captain. Basically he kept on persisting with them even though they failed during their early matches.

nope.......are you suggesting that his influence with the selectors, Coach etc extends that far????

Besides which so far as the team goes he inherited a core of world class players (including himself) - Tendulkar, Dravid, Kumble, even if they may have been seen as being Home ground specialists - that is more resources than most other teams can hope for.............

so far as the new players are concerned they have a resource base better than any other nation, and they tend to specialise to sub continent conditions.........while this is also true of every nation (and naturally so), it is a very real advantage when your pitches are also tailored to exploit this.........

so far as the bowling seam attack goes part of the reason for persisting with some of those named would be as a lack of viable options until recent times..........

 

[anzac]

bottom line for me Ganguly is a successful Captain for India, but I do not rate him as a 'great' Captain...........

as I have said elsewhere IMO his attitude on the tour to NZ seemed to be that of a petulant child, or at least one of disinterest in the cricket....not one that I would expect from any leader let alone a Captain of any sort..........

 

[Swervy]

bottom line for me Ganguly is a successful Captain for India, but I do not rate him as a 'great' Captain...........

as I have said elsewhere IMO his attitude on the tour to NZ seemed to be that of a petulant child, or at least one of disinterest in the cricket....not one that I would expect from any leader let alone a Captain of any sort..........

yeah..its ok to look like a good captain when your team is in control of things..but the test is when things arent going well in the field.Ganguly has never impressed me in those situations..whereas Waugh,Hussain and Fleming have impressed in those situations.

and lets face it,India sucked big time in NZ, hence Gangulys attitude

 

[anzac]

yeah..its ok to look like a good captain when your team is in control of things..but the test is when things arent going well in the field.Ganguly has never impressed me in those situations..whereas Waugh,Hussain and Fleming have impressed in those situations.

and lets face it,India sucked big time in NZ, hence Gangulys attitude

rather I'd say Ganguly's attitude was a big reason as to why they sucked - no commitment or leadership from their Captain - a rudderless ship & no spine!!!!

 

[Swervy]

rather I'd say Ganguly's attitude was a big reason as to why they sucked - no commitment or leadership from their Captain - a rudderless ship & no spine!!!!

a bit of a chicken / egg situation...or something like that anyway

 

[V Reddy]

nope.......are you suggesting that his influence with the selectors, Coach etc extends that far????

Besides which so far as the team goes he inherited a core of world class players (including himself) - Tendulkar, Dravid, Kumble, even if they may have been seen as being Home ground specialists - that is more resources than most other teams can hope for.............

so far as the new players are concerned they have a resource base better than any other nation, and they tend to specialise to sub continent conditions.........while this is also true of every nation (and naturally so), it is a very real advantage when your pitches are also tailored to exploit this.........

so far as the bowling seam attack goes part of the reason for persisting with some of those named would be as a lack of viable options until recent times..........

Yes his influence indeed stretches that far. Being the prince of calcutta may have indeed helped him in this matter .

To quote one example , Harbhajan's career almost seemed like finished before he played against Aus. He was kicked out of NCA for disciplinary reasons , dropped from Punjab for Sarandeep Singh and his father died at the same time. Singh himself said that he thought of retiring and going to US to work as a cabbie there to earn money to get his sisters married. He was picked from nowhere.

Sehwag too first played in 1999 and was dropped for 2 yrs . Then he got picked in 2001 and failed in that series in Zim but he was still persisted with. That was not the case with earlier captains. If there was any other captain , Patel would have been dropped after he cost India that series in Aus. Same can be said about Kaif and Yuvraj. I definately believe Ganguly and Wright have a major role to play in this and that may be the case why the players respect him so much.

BTW, Sidhu has advocated to give Wright the Dronacharya award and giving him Indian citizenship and giving him the best facilities to get his family here so that he can coach India after the rumours of him leaving to NZ

 

[Ford_GTHO351]

Test Captaincy Record
Hussain (45 matches): 17 wins = 37.77%
Fleming (58 matches): 20 wins = 34.48%

ODI Captaincy Record
Hussain (56 matches): 28 wins = 50.00%
Fleming (158 matches): 68 wins = 43.03%

 

[Ford_GTHO351]

Steve Waugh's Test Captaincy Record
57 Matches: 41 wins = 71.92%

Steve Waugh's ODI Captaincy Record
106 Matches: 67 wins = 63.20%

 

[Ford_GTHO351]

Ganguly's Test Captaincy Record
38 Matches: 15 wins = 39.47%

Ganguly's ODI Captaincy Record
120 Matches: 64 wins = 53.33%

 

[marc71178]

Test Captaincy Record
Hussain (45 matches): 17 wins = 37.77%
Fleming (58 matches): 20 wins = 34.48%

ODI Captaincy Record
Hussain (56 matches): 28 wins = 50.00%
Fleming (158 matches): 68 wins = 43.03%

That's quite a shock to see those figures!