How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

[Slifer]

I need to know which India team we are referring. I heard mentions of 2019?

Before we continue, we should have that baseline.

@Slifer rank turners or not, do we see India's batting line up standing up to that '81 or '83 bowling attack?

No the current Indian team's batting probably won't hold up but they'd probably, imo, score enough runs for their bowlers to get through the WI. 5 tests: 3-2 to India, 4 tests: 2-1 to India.

 

[kyear2]

They will prepare a flat pitch and unleash five quality bowlers. Which WI and Aus at their peaks failed to do.

So, I'm just clarifying.

You're saying the current Indian bowling attack is on par or better than the two being referenced? And this is taking depth into account.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I need to know which India team we are referring. I heard mentions of 2019?

Before we continue, we should have that baseline.

@Slifer rank turners or not, do we see India's batting line up standing up to that '81 or '83 bowling attack?

Okay, I think I would field this team for India:
Rohit Sharma
Mayank Agarwal
Cheteshwar Pujara
Virat Kohli (c)
Ajinkya Rahane
Rishabh Pant (wk)
Ravindra Jadeja
Ravichandran Ashwin
Jasprit Bumrah
Mohammad Shami
Umesh Yadav/Kuldeep Yadav/Jayant Yadav/K L Rahul (depending on the pitch conditions).

 

[Migara]

So, I'm just clarifying.

You're saying the current Indian bowling attack is on par or better than the two being referenced? And this is taking depth into account.

The lead two bowlers are not better than lead two bowlers of WI and Aus attacks. But the next three as a unit are way more versatile and potent. As a bowling attack India probably has the best among ATG sides. Imran's 86/87 side which was very much ballanced and almost overpowered WI. Incidentally it was a five man attack. This Indian attack is even better than that.

 

[Jumno]

West indies. Australia do have the batting and bowling resources, however the bowling power of the WI would just overpower the Australians.

Would be a fascinating contest.

 

[capt_Luffy]

West indies. Australia do have the batting and bowling resources, however the bowling power of the WI would just overpower the Australians.

Would be a fascinating contest.

The contest here isn't '80s Windies vs '00s Australia; but how would they fare against 2010s India.

 

[Migara]

West indies. Australia do have the batting and bowling resources, however the bowling power of the WI would just overpower the Australians.

Would be a fascinating contest.

Issue is intimidation factor of the 80s WI side will not apply to 2000 Australia side or 2019-20 Indian side any more. These are players brought on either facing very quick bowling / throwdowns / drills. They have helmets, and they don't move back and across to pull. They pull in front of their faces, allowing them to pull on front foot as well as pull straighter. 80s WI attack as not subjected to handling as such other than for few brief moments with Kapil, who well and truely took them on. In that Indian or Aus side, multiple batsmen will be trying to do this, and doing it is not second nature for them.

 

[Slifer]

Issue is intimidation factor of the 80s WI side will not apply to 2000 Australia side or 2019-20 Indian side any more. These are players brought on either facing very quick bowling / throwdowns / drills. They have helmets, and they don't move back and across to pull. They pull in front of their faces, allowing them to pull on front foot as well as pull straighter. 80s WI attack as not subjected to handling as such other than for few brief moments with Kapil, who well and truely took them on. In that Indian or Aus side, multiple batsmen will be trying to do this, and doing it is not second nature for them.

Bro England with a much less intimidating attack culled Australia's batting and that was when the Australians had all the protection in the world.

 

[Migara]

Bro England with a much less intimidating attack culled Australia's batting and that was when the Australians had all the protection in the world.

They never were known to take wickets via it, so you don't take anything away from that bowling attack.

But here, you take one of the most important factors that WI attack worked on. The fear factor.

 

[Slifer]

The lead two bowlers are not better than lead two bowlers of WI and Aus attacks. But the next three as a unit are way more versatile and potent. As a bowling attack India probably has the best among ATG sides. Imran's 86/87 side which was very much ballanced and almost overpowered WI. Incidentally it was a five man attack. This Indian attack is even better than that.

Are you high seriously?!! Bumrah aside none of Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami or whomever are better than: Garner, Roberts, Holding, Clarke, Walsh etc. And that 86/87 Pakistan side won the 1st test in '86, got utterly demolished in the 2nd test. WI had Pakistani on the ropes in the 3rd test and only time wasting and 'umpiring ' saved Pakistan (according Dujon) .

Also, note that was a WI team without Lloyd, Holding, Garner, Kallicharan or Roberts. Our scenario is assuming WI is the early 80s version with Lloyd, Kallicharan and any combo of : Garner Croft, Marshall, Holding, and Roberts (maybe Clarke).

 

[Slifer]

They never were known to take wickets via it, so you don't take anything away from that bowling attack.

But here, you take one of the most important factors that WI attack worked on. The fear factor.

What?? Fear factor or whatever you want to come up with, great bowling is great bowling. England had a decent pace attack and culled Australia. I shutter to think what Marshall and co would do to them. Let's make it 80s conditions to make things even more interesting....

 

[Migara]

Are you high seriously?!! Bumrah aside none of Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami or whomever are better than: Garner, Roberts, Holding, Clarke, Walsh etc. And that 86/87 Pakistan side won the 1st test in '86, got utterly demolished in the 2nd test. WI had Pakistani on the ropes in the 3rd test and only time wasting and 'umpiring ' saved Pakistan (according Dujon) .

Also, note that was a WI team without Lloyd, Holding, Garner, Kallicharan or Roberts. Our scenario is assuming WI is the early 80s version with Lloyd, Kallicharan and any combo of : Garner Croft, Marshall, Holding, and Roberts (maybe Clarke).

Problem is you assume all of these players are at peak at once, which was far from the truth. At a given time only two, and rarely three pacers from those sides were at their peak form. Some batsmen were frankly ordinary (like Hooper, Gomes, Arthurton, Logie etc), other than for not being in peak.

Current Indian team has all their bowlers in top 20. That is huge, and that is how batting lineups are obliterated. Sometimes it is not the great bowlers that matter, rather bowlers in form. Current Indian bowling juggernaut is all in form. Inform bowler > Great bowler.

(And FTR, WI was demolished in the 1st test as much as Pakistan in the 2nd. 3rd test is legendary for one of the worst and biased umpiring of all time.)

 

[Jumno]

A few posters have got me intrigued on that test.

 

[Migara]

What?? Fear factor or whatever you want to come up with, great bowling is great bowling. England had a decent pace attack and culled Australia. I shutter to think what Marshall and co would do to them. Let's make it 80s conditions to make things even more interesting....

Nah, great bowling is about fear factor too. Once it is taken away, it is not the same. Just like when a mystery spinner is deciphered. Bowling is still the same, no longer it is a mystery.

Make the conditions of 80s, and Put McGrath Gillespie and Lee on it and I am pretty sure some of WI batsmen will start to run away from Lee, who will have a free reign on terror tactics due to two excellent controlled bowling colleagues he has. And remember this side will now have the advantage of inflicting pain and terror in to opposition batting who are batting in sun hats. 80 WI rarely challenged with extreme pace from opposition. Only time they were challenged was in 75. Then Lillee and Thommo both regressed in pace. Hadlee and Imran were terrific, but they never were tearaway fast bowlers. Only man that gave trouble with pace was Wasim, who was couple of yards slower than express even in his prime. They faced no one with pace of Akthar, Lee, Tait, Bond or Waqar with regularity. And these guys are regularly faster than any of the WI bowlers during the time too. So I will not look in to that 80s condition argument much.

 

[Coronis]

Problem is you assume all of these players are at peak at once, which was far from the truth. At a given time only two, and rarely three pacers from those sides were at their peak form. Some batsmen were frankly ordinary (like Hooper, Gomes, Arthurton, Logie etc), other than for not being in peak.

Current Indian team has all their bowlers in top 20. That is huge, and that is how batting lineups are obliterated. Sometimes it is not the great bowlers that matter, rather bowlers in form. Current Indian bowling juggernaut is all in form. Inform bowler > Great bowler.

(And FTR, WI was demolished in the 1st test as much as Pakistan in the 2nd. 3rd test is legendary for one of the worst and biased umpiring of all time.)

Yeah I totally can’t think of a time where Windies or Australia had all their bowlers ranked in the top 20 (big whoop) by ICC ranking system which is flawless.

 

[Slifer]

Nah, great bowling is about fear factor too. Once it is taken away, it is not the same. Just like when a mystery spinner is deciphered. Bowling is still the same, no longer it is a mystery.

Make the conditions of 80s, and Put McGrath Gillespie and Lee on it and I am pretty sure some of WI batsmen will start to run away from Lee, who will have a free reign on terror tactics due to two excellent controlled bowling colleagues he has. And remember this side will now have the advantage of inflicting pain and terror in to opposition batting who are batting in sun hats. 80 WI rarely challenged with extreme pace from opposition. Only time they were challenged was in 75. Then Lillee and Thommo both regressed in pace. Hadlee and Imran were terrific, but they never were tearaway fast bowlers. Only man that gave trouble with pace was Wasim, who was couple of yards slower than express even in his prime. They faced no one with pace of Akthar, Lee, Tait, Bond or Waqar with regularity. And these guys are regularly faster than any of the WI bowlers during the time too. So I will not look in to that 80s condition argument much.

Lol lol @ the bolded. The OP asked how WI of the 80s/Australia 2000s would fare in India, I don't know what Australia would do vs WI has anything to do with this discussion.

The fact that you mentioned Tait should disqualify you from any serious discussion. Waqar and Akram got demolished by an old Desmond Haynes and Carl Hooper in '93.

Subz can correct me if I'm wrong but the WI team he's talking about I assume are the ones with Lloyd, Garner, Holding etc not the shell that played in Pakistan in '86.

 

[kyear2]

Issue is intimidation factor of the 80s WI side will not apply to 2000 Australia side or 2019-20 Indian side any more. These are players brought on either facing very quick bowling / throwdowns / drills. They have helmets, and they don't move back and across to pull. They pull in front of their faces, allowing them to pull on front foot as well as pull straighter. 80s WI attack as not subjected to handling as such other than for few brief moments with Kapil, who well and truely took them on. In that Indian or Aus side, multiple batsmen will be trying to do this, and doing it is not second nature for them.

You do know there were helmets in the '80's, WSC basically revolutionized and advanced protection.

And if you think anyone could intimidate Viv or Lloyd, you've never watched cricket.

 

[Slifer]

You do know there were helmets in the '80's, WSC basically revolutionized and advanced protection.

And if you think anyone could intimidate Viv or Lloyd, you've never watched cricket.

Yeah this dude is trolling as usual. Lloyd and Viv faced Tommo and Lillee at their utter fastest sans helmets and with unlimited bouncers. But he thinks they'd quake at the sight of the atg Lee and Gillespie. And McGrath was never ever ever an intimidating bowler. Super smart and tactical but not scary. Smh

 

[kyear2]

Nah, great bowling is about fear factor too. Once it is taken away, it is not the same. Just like when a mystery spinner is deciphered. Bowling is still the same, no longer it is a mystery.

Make the conditions of 80s, and Put McGrath Gillespie and Lee on it and I am pretty sure some of WI batsmen will start to run away from Lee, who will have a free reign on terror tactics due to two excellent controlled bowling colleagues he has. And remember this side will now have the advantage of inflicting pain and terror in to opposition batting who are batting in sun hats. 80 WI rarely challenged with extreme pace from opposition. Only time they were challenged was in 75. Then Lillee and Thommo both regressed in pace. Hadlee and Imran were terrific, but they never were tearaway fast bowlers. Only man that gave trouble with pace was Wasim, who was couple of yards slower than express even in his prime. They faced no one with pace of Akthar, Lee, Tait, Bond or Waqar with regularity. And these guys are regularly faster than any of the WI bowlers during the time too. So I will not look in to that 80s condition argument much.

1. WTF.

2. What does any of this have to do with India beating the WI away from home?

 

[kyear2]

They never were known to take wickets via it, so you don't take anything away from that bowling attack.

But here, you take one of the most important factors that WI attack worked on. The fear factor.

Honestly dude? Have u even seen Marshall bowl? Garner? JC