How much time is left before gilly(church) bids goodbye!?

[GIMH]

Calling someone an idiot because they dared to predict England would lose 5-0 (again dare I say).

Nah it wasn't really that, but more the structure of the post, and his others. Twas uncalled for on my part though, and I apologise to pup11.

Though it is inconceivable to think that we'd be beaten 5-0 at home. Then again, I thought that about 5-0 at all so...

 

[Richard]

England have only ever lost 0-5 at home once, though with a bit less luck in 1989, that blackest of all summers (despite the brilliant weather), they might well have lost 0-6 then.

 

[Speersy]

Gilly is only 35, so he could definately play for another two years. I do not think he want to set a date as he would be the type of person that would want to retire on his own terms, not the selectors.

If Haddin makes alot of runs and gilly is failing he would be under alot of pressure to retire. However he still is miles ahead of him now and will continue to be.

 

[Speersy]

Thats worded very bad, but meh

 

[Richard]

Of late Gilchrist has certainly not been miles ahead of Haddin - capable of playing innings Haddin (and almost anyone else) could not play, yes. But not performing so well as to completely dismiss Haddin's claims to the place.

IMO the best thing Australia could do next summer is have as much of a clean-break as possible - and I think Gilchrist going out alongside McGrath, Warne and Langer would also be fitting.

 

[Burpey]

Nah it wasn't really that, but more the structure of the post, and his others. Twas uncalled for on my part though, and I apologise to pup11.

Though it is inconceivable to think that we'd be beaten 5-0 at home. Then again, I thought that about 5-0 at all so...

You've done well, son.

 

[pup11]

Look i have nothing against england coz they did play some gr8 cricket till ashes 05 but off late they are in self destruct mode they think freddie is god or something they want him to do everything and if he fails so does england,after ashes 05 there graph has dipped and aussies have just gone up, so rather than searching good replacements for the players who have left plans of global domination are as good as there bowling plans for MCG.

 

[pup11]

England needs a decent pool of players.

Lot of ppl will say that england dipped after the ashes due to injuries to their key ashes members but australia also dropped the likes of dizzy,kasper,martyn who were all world class players but were dropped after one poor series so the difference is between the fring players and that will always be the telling factors between australia and other teams

 

[wpdavid]

Lot of ppl will say that england dipped after the ashes due to injuries to their key ashes members but australia also dropped the likes of dizzy,kasper,martyn who were all world class players but were dropped after one poor series so the difference is between the fring players and that will always be the telling factors between australia and other teams

Fair point.
And it does worry me when I read English fans making, imo, too much of the absence of McWarne in 2009. Of course they'll be missed, but there seem to be decent quicks coming through, and that's generally what wins series in England.
There are much bigger questions about the England side. Will enough of the batsmen up their games sufficiently instead of just maintaining "respectable" averages by cashing in against moderate attacks? Will enough of our quicks stay fit & improve like Fred & Jones did prior to 2005? 0-5 in 2009 should be unthinkable, but if the answers to the above are negative, then you'd fancy Aus every time, and there aren't too many draws nowadays.

 

[pup11]

lets see who will make it to ashes 09 in england:-1.strauss 2.cook 3.bell 4.KP 5.collingwood 6.freddie 7.g.jones 8.hoggard 9.panesar 10.anderson 11.S.jones(if he remains fit for a while). I can't see vaughan(age and injuries), harmison(age will be 32 or 33),tresco(mental fitness) making it to 09,harmison effectiveness is really questionable at that age.I will make KP the captain coz he has got the attitude to withstand the aussies.

 

[pup11]

you will ask me that basically its the same english side that played in aus baring some changes but then the thing is i don't see any english player with potential to back the likes of fred and KP other than these blokes, likes of stuart broad,saj mahmood,plunkett really don't match up to the intensity required to play in an ashes series.As for harmison his main weapons are pace and bounce and if he maintains them till 09 then he should play.

 

[pup11]

And now for the Aussie side

1.C.rogers 2.jacques(haydenif he still wants too) 3.ponting 4.M.hussey 5.clarke 6.Watson(symo if watson is again injured) 7.gilly(or haddin) 8.lee 9.johnson 10.clark/hilfenhaus(if clark is still in form otherwise hilfy is perfect for english coditions) 11.S.McGill(otherwise cullen or bailey) extras- Tait,travis brit/cosgrove,white(if he improves his bowling)

 

[wpdavid]

lets see who will make it to ashes 09 in england:-1.strauss 2.cook 3.bell 4.KP 5.collingwood 6.freddie 7.g.jones 8.hoggard 9.panesar 10.anderson 11.S.jones(if he remains fit for a while). I can't see vaughan(age and injuries), harmison(age will be 32 or 33),tresco(mental fitness) making it to 09,harmison effectiveness is really questionable at that age.I will make KP the captain coz he has got the attitude to withstand the aussies.

Let's not make KP captain until England are next in SA.

Beyond that, it really does depend on whether the players you mentioned mature over the next 2 years. It can happen - look at Aus between 1986/7 and 1989, where basically the same batting lineup + Taylor toughened up immeasurably after being outclassed by more experienced oppoonents in the earlier series. Obviously it remains to be seen whether Strauss, Bell, Cook & Collingwood will do likewise.

Beyond the batting, there's a lot of guesswork involved. No-one really has a clue who our keeper will be in 2009. Nor do most of us know whether Flintoff will be fit. We do need to blood one or two of the newer quicks before long, so I'd let Harmison spend his summer in the northeast, which is where he seems to want to be anyway. Which, if any, of Broad, Tremlett, Mahmood & Plunkett will come up to scratch is anyone's guess. I suspect that Anderson may be a better longterm bet than Hoggard, although I'd be tempted to play both at the start of our summer.

England could be OK in 2 years time. I'm not saying that we definitely won't. I just worry about the assumption in some quarters that Aus'll be easy meat because of the recent & imminent retirements.

 

[pup11]

australia and dead meat never.

There is an aussie spirit that makes every australian team bunch of fighters if you notice more than glen and warney and other old pros it was newcomers like hussey,clarke,clark,symonds that hit the english hard when it mattered. punter as always was gr8 but he and other old pros were more than supported by these newcomers at test level. So to say in next 2 years the young guns like johnson,tait,white,hilfy won't be ready is for is stupid

 

[Stumped]

And when he does reitre he is sure for s spot on the commentry team after his little stint in the 20/20

 

[Richard]

There is an aussie spirit that makes every australian team bunch of fighters if you notice more than glen and warney and other old pros it was newcomers like hussey,clarke,clark,symonds that hit the english hard when it mattered. punter as always was gr8 but he and other old pros were more than supported by these newcomers at test level. So to say in next 2 years the young guns like johnson,tait,white,hilfy won't be ready is for is stupid

No, it's not stupid, there's no reason simply to presume that any of Johnson, Tait and Hilfenhaus will prove Test-class - ever. They might do, yes, but not every bowler who gets labelled in Australia as "promising" makes the grade in the end. As for White - if he's ever the sole spin-option in the Australian Test side, you'll know the seamers need to do the job.

For all we know, the Australian Test attack in 2009 may feature none of them.

 

[Richard]

Let's not make KP captain until England are next in SA.

Beyond that, it really does depend on whether the players you mentioned mature over the next 2 years. It can happen - look at Aus between 1986/7 and 1989, where basically the same batting lineup + Taylor toughened up immeasurably after being outclassed by more experienced oppoonents in the earlier series. Obviously it remains to be seen whether Strauss, Bell, Cook & Collingwood will do likewise.

Beyond the batting, there's a lot of guesswork involved. No-one really has a clue who our keeper will be in 2009. Nor do most of us know whether Flintoff will be fit. We do need to blood one or two of the newer quicks before long, so I'd let Harmison spend his summer in the northeast, which is where he seems to want to be anyway. Which, if any, of Broad, Tremlett, Mahmood & Plunkett will come up to scratch is anyone's guess. I suspect that Anderson may be a better longterm bet than Hoggard, although I'd be tempted to play both at the start of our summer.

England could be OK in 2 years time. I'm not saying that we definitely won't. I just worry about the assumption in some quarters that Aus'll be easy meat because of the recent & imminent retirements.

Anyone who's genuinely assuming they'll be easy-meat is pretty delusional. But the simple fact of the matter is, the chances of another Test-class spinner emerging from Australia in the next 10, never mind the next 3, years are very, very slim judging by simple historical trends. The chances of another McGrath are pretty damn small, too - we wait with interest to see how Clark develops.

Do you really, genuinely, expect Plunkett or Mahmood to be up to scratch - ever? 'Cos I certainly don't. Broad and Tremlett are slightly different, but still - you'd have to be extremely optimistic to expect either to come to the party in the immidiate future.

I also find it virtually inconceivable that Harmison will not play the 1st Test of next summer. Even after countless failures and the odd attitude-criticism, there's still been virtually no "drop him" remarks from the Press Pack. Indeed, DF has received far more criticism than Harmison.

I don't see any reason to suspect that Strauss and Bell won't start next summer in the side and score lots of runs. I genuinely hope Vaughan comes through the rest of this winter, sees some sense and retires from ODIs, and starts next summer back in the Test side. Trescothick I'm less certain about, I have virtually no clue about these sorts of states of mind. I'll just say, though, that if he's available and has convinced enough people of his stability I think he should and will play.

The line-up I'd be happiest to see at Lord's on May 17th would be something like...
Trescothick, Strauss, Cook, Vaughan, Pietersen, Bell, Flintoff, Davies (pending early-season form), Hoggard, Harmison, Panesar.
Bearing in mind, of course, reasonable constraints. There's no way on Earth Panesar won't be picked, even though there's likely to be little in the pitch for him, and as I said, I just can't see Harmison going just yet, especially if he takes a bagful of early wickets a la 2005. Hoggard, obviously, if fit walks in. I trust Vaughan to handle Flintoff's bowling well, and given West Indies' bowling-attack I'd guess we can bank on him "returning to form" there, too.

 

[wpdavid]

The line-up I'd be happiest to see at Lord's on May 17th would be something like...
Trescothick, Strauss, Cook, Vaughan, Pietersen, Bell, Flintoff, Davies (pending early-season form), Hoggard, Harmison, Panesar.
Bearing in mind, of course, reasonable constraints. There's no way on Earth Panesar won't be picked, even though there's likely to be little in the pitch for him, and as I said, I just can't see Harmison going just yet, especially if he takes a bagful of early wickets a la 2005. Hoggard, obviously, if fit walks in. I trust Vaughan to handle Flintoff's bowling well, and given West Indies' bowling-attack I'd guess we can bank on him "returning to form" there, too.

I'd rather see Anderson than Harmison, of whom I've had more than my fill over the last 2 years. You're right about the press' treatment of him (apart from Gideon Haigh, who imo knows rather more than the English hacks combined), but surely the selectors must be aware of his crimes by now. I know Hoggard & Anderson are slightly different versions of the same thing, but I'd like Broad & Tremlett to play some more county cricket before choosing one of them. Ultimately I think one of them will replace Hoggard in a 4-man attack, although I know that could easily come back & haunt me. The other quick that we've both ignored is Simon Jones, although that's probably wise.

As for the rest, goodness only knows. If everyone is fit, I agree with your top 7. If one of Vaughan or Tres is unfit, then Collingwood stays. If both are out of it, I suppose Joyce is currently next in line, and noone else will have emerged by May 17. The keeper is a tough call though. If Fletcher goes before then, we may yet see Read at 8. I wouldn't really want Davies thrown in yet.

 

[Richard]

I don't really like the idea, either. 20-year-olds (that's younger than me!) in international cricket just doesn't often work, especially over here. Mind, I like the idea of DF going even less. I have no really strong memories of English cricket which do not involve him being at the helm. A year ago I had genuine hopes of him being English cricket's Alex Ferguson.

As for top-7 replacements, I struggle to grasp what Owais Shah has done wrong. For that matter, though, if Vaughan and Trescothick were both unavailable I'd probably prefer a return to 6-bat-5-bowl (counting Flintoff as a bowler). There are more bowlers banging on the door than batsmen.

Judging on past experience, I highly doubt the selectors will be aware of Harmison's crimes when the Press Pack are not. Mostly the ideas and values are shared between the two. I have noticed by now that you've grown tired of Harmison but like I said - I honestly just don't see his being dropped happening yet. Panesar is more likely to miss selection.

The reason I ignored Jones (and the reason I presume you said it's wise) is because I simply presumed he'd not be fit. I've heard no talk of when his latest guess date is. And I'd not be amazed if he picked-up something else totally unrelated 3 games later. Maybe a broken foot this time.

If, and it's a big if, Anderson has a big rest-of-ODI winter I think he's a small chance to take the Harmison spot. But only a small one. As for Broad, I don't think he's shown anywhere near as much talent as some do, and until he does IMO he's best off playing domestic cricket, rather than going for 4-an-over in Test-matches. Tremlett has yet to convince me of anything in his... 6...? year career now. But he is probably currently a better bet than Harmison.

 

[pup11]

mate if johnson,tait,hilfenhaus, don't make it to the australian test team in that case i am sorry to say we just ran out young talented bowlers in australia, but the biggest mistake that england made was to release troy cooley the man can spot a bowlers strength and work with him accordingly and to sharpen their talents and young aussie quicks have really improved under his guidance.