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How long will England be no.1 for?

How long will England be the no.1 Test side?


  • Total voters
    65

Flem274*

123/5
Which quickly ended after the first post.
Hey, for all your abuse of Indian seamers, you haven't pissed them off enough to make them sign up and tell you off, then have them create a multi a few months later to do the same thing.

Come back when we see "S Sreesanth" as our newest member.:cool:
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
wrong.

swann is still unproven, and if this series is anything to go by has proven to a big fat dud.

it might not fit into convenient theories, but fact is swann is nowhere as versatile as people think he is.
I wasn't aware that success against New Zealand was required for a spinner to prove himself.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Anyway, to answer the question, I reckon 2-5 years minimum.

Most of the reasons have been covered (quality batting lineup, deep batting lineup, best bowling attack, best spinner) and with the exception of South Africa, I don't see a side that can topple us in the near future.

South Africa have their issues; Alviro Petersen as an opener, their number 6 batsman, 3rd seamer and spinner all being short of Test class means that they're reliant on a handful of, admittedly very good players. We saw what happened when they played Pakistan in the UAE and Steyn was rendered ineffective - a 0-0 drawn series. England, for some reason, seem to be the one side that a lot of the South African players really struggle against as well. South Africa also have their political issues - the obvious partner for Smith at the top of the order is Jacques Rudolph, yet the quota policy means that to select Rudolph they need to find another black, coloured or Asian cricketer elsewhere. I don't think a side can truly have a run at number 1 when they're prevented from picking their potential strongest XI.

India - with the exception of Praveen Kumar and to a small degree, Ishant Sharma, this tour was a forgettable tour for all their "bowlers". Zaheer Khan, their one truly Test class bowler, is now injured for 4 months, and at 33 years of age and with his injury record, whether he'll ever be a force in Test cricket again is a legitimate question. Batting wise, you'd have to assume that Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman will all call it a day at some point over the next few years, and the fact that India have failed to find a settled, successful number 6 despite Ganguly's retirement coming 3 years ago has to be a worry. If they can't manage that correctly, how are they going to cope when their greats retire? India's recent rise to the top has come in spite of, not because of their board, and Ishant's declaration that he'll undergo ankle surgery after the Border-Gavaskar series is a serious indication that lessons haven't been learned from the recently concluded series. They'll remain a tough proposition in India, but I wouldn't be suprised if an overseas Test win is a long time in coming for India.

Australia - have an upcoming transition phase as Ponting and Hussey will need phased out in the next couple of years. They've still got question marks over their batting; they've not yet addressed their weakness in that suit, although the customary once a series ridiculous batting collapse has yet to occur in this series. By the time the next Ashes rolls around I'd expect them to have recovered to number 3, but I feel that the next few years for Australia might mirror England's 2005-09, as an inexperienced batting lineup finds its feet in international cricket. It's easy to forget how much England's batting lineup transitioned between 2004 and 2009; of the side which started the 2004 series against New Zealand only Strauss (on debut) and Trescothick actually started the 2005 Ashes series; Nasser Hussain, Mark Butcher and Graeme Thorpe were all pensioned off over the space of a year. England's batting lineup which emerged has gone on to prove their quality, but it came at the expense of years of inconsistency from the likes of Strauss, Cook and Bell. I reckon Australia might experience something similar for the next few years.

Sri Lanka - will remain a tough proposition at home but are now, barring a miracle tomorrow, set to extend their winless run to 10 Tests since Murali retired. Their bowling attack won't see them win too many Tests overseas, and unless a couple of gun spinners are unleashed, they'll struggle to win many Tests at home.

The one side who might suprise the rankings are the West Indies - they've actually got the makings of a very good bowling attack (Roach, Edwards and Sammy all average under 30 in the last 2 years) and they've got some talented, if raw batsmen. Their batting recently has been a complete let down, but at the moment they've got a few players playing County cricket - if the likes of Darren Bravo and Kemar Roach have a successful couple of seasons in county cricket then it should help them massively develop their games and could lead to a resurgence from the West Indies. I wouldn't be at all suprised to see them push towards the top 4 in a couple of years.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
The one side who might suprise the rankings are the West Indies - they've actually got the makings of a very good bowling attack (Roach, Edwards and Sammy all average under 30 in the last 2 years) and they've got some talented, if raw batsmen. Their batting recently has been a complete let down, but at the moment they've got a few players playing County cricket - if the likes of Darren Bravo and Kemar Roach have a successful couple of seasons in county cricket then it should help them massively develop their games and could lead to a resurgence from the West Indies. I wouldn't be at all suprised to see them push towards the top 4 in a couple of years.
Indeed. Lots of promise for the West Indies. Are there any other players in county cricket? Would be great if Barath and Rampaul could get a gig
 

Cabinet96

Hall of Fame Member
England certainly have the capabilities to stay number 1 for a while and have a team to do well on the sub continent. Should be intriguing watching England play in the sub continent.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Anyway, to answer the question, I reckon 2-5 years minimum.

Most of the reasons have been covered (quality batting lineup, deep batting lineup, best bowling attack, best spinner) and with the exception of South Africa, I don't see a side that can topple us in the near future.

South Africa have their issues; Alviro Petersen as an opener, their number 6 batsman, 3rd seamer and spinner all being short of Test class means that they're reliant on a handful of, admittedly very good players. We saw what happened when they played Pakistan in the UAE and Steyn was rendered ineffective - a 0-0 drawn series. England, for some reason, seem to be the one side that a lot of the South African players really struggle against as well. South Africa also have their political issues - the obvious partner for Smith at the top of the order is Jacques Rudolph, yet the quota policy means that to select Rudolph they need to find another black, coloured or Asian cricketer elsewhere. I don't think a side can truly have a run at number 1 when they're prevented from picking their potential strongest XI.

India - with the exception of Praveen Kumar and to a small degree, Ishant Sharma, this tour was a forgettable tour for all their "bowlers". Zaheer Khan, their one truly Test class bowler, is now injured for 4 months, and at 33 years of age and with his injury record, whether he'll ever be a force in Test cricket again is a legitimate question. Batting wise, you'd have to assume that Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman will all call it a day at some point over the next few years, and the fact that India have failed to find a settled, successful number 6 despite Ganguly's retirement coming 3 years ago has to be a worry. If they can't manage that correctly, how are they going to cope when their greats retire? India's recent rise to the top has come in spite of, not because of their board, and Ishant's declaration that he'll undergo ankle surgery after the Border-Gavaskar series is a serious indication that lessons haven't been learned from the recently concluded series. They'll remain a tough proposition in India, but I wouldn't be suprised if an overseas Test win is a long time in coming for India.

Australia - have an upcoming transition phase as Ponting and Hussey will need phased out in the next couple of years. They've still got question marks over their batting; they've not yet addressed their weakness in that suit, although the customary once a series ridiculous batting collapse has yet to occur in this series. By the time the next Ashes rolls around I'd expect them to have recovered to number 3, but I feel that the next few years for Australia might mirror England's 2005-09, as an inexperienced batting lineup finds its feet in international cricket. It's easy to forget how much England's batting lineup transitioned between 2004 and 2009; of the side which started the 2004 series against New Zealand only Strauss (on debut) and Trescothick actually started the 2005 Ashes series; Nasser Hussain, Mark Butcher and Graeme Thorpe were all pensioned off over the space of a year. England's batting lineup which emerged has gone on to prove their quality, but it came at the expense of years of inconsistency from the likes of Strauss, Cook and Bell. I reckon Australia might experience something similar for the next few years.

Sri Lanka - will remain a tough proposition at home but are now, barring a miracle tomorrow, set to extend their winless run to 10 Tests since Murali retired. Their bowling attack won't see them win too many Tests overseas, and unless a couple of gun spinners are unleashed, they'll struggle to win many Tests at home.

The one side who might suprise the rankings are the West Indies - they've actually got the makings of a very good bowling attack (Roach, Edwards and Sammy all average under 30 in the last 2 years) and they've got some talented, if raw batsmen. Their batting recently has been a complete let down, but at the moment they've got a few players playing County cricket - if the likes of Darren Bravo and Kemar Roach have a successful couple of seasons in county cricket then it should help them massively develop their games and could lead to a resurgence from the West Indies. I wouldn't be at all suprised to see them push towards the top 4 in a couple of years.
Excellent post but you missed out the team that will render England useless on the roads of Dubai :ph34r:
 

Xuhaib

International Coach
still remember how Pakistan burst their bubble in 05 would be fun if it happens again though can't see it since 11 is stronger then the 05 class and Pakistan have gone worse since then.
 

slowfinger

International Debutant
Honestly, I think its all about infrastructure, England's domestic level is amazing and the produce great players through hard work... It looks all tactical, whilst teams like Pakistan don't have a very good infrastructure and therefore rely on pure talent... Which they have, but can't last too long. England are also very disciplined and got this 'aura' about them now, most of their fast bowlers bowl 85mph+ accurately. I remember when I first saw Broad and I was like, who is this joke, now he has really won me over :wub:. :ph34r:They work on all players who may or may not be South African, i mean, have alot of talent, and push them untill their flaws are gone... I admire that about England, and alos less corruption and more cricket, :laugh:
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Indeed. Lots of promise for the West Indies. Are there any other players in county cricket? Would be great if Barath and Rampaul could get a gig
Having just checked I think it's just Chanderpaul, lil Bravo and Roach that are playing County Cricket for now - though hopefully the latter two do enough to be considered for a stint next season.
 

Top_Cat

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As VicO said, the thing which will keep England at the top is the bowling list. So much depth. Good batting may get you there, good bowling keeps you there. I give England a few years yet and will be shocked if they're challenged in England for even longer.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
Having just checked I think it's just Chanderpaul, lil Bravo and Roach that are playing County Cricket for now - though hopefully the latter two do enough to be considered for a stint next season.
Looks like Chanderpaul has chalked up a few big centuries as well. I'm happy that at least three Windies players are managing to get some more FC games so they're not sitting around all off-season.
 

rza

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Anyway, to answer the question, I reckon 2-5 years minimum.

Most of the reasons have been covered (quality batting lineup, deep batting lineup, best bowling attack, best spinner) and with the exception of South Africa, I don't see a side that can topple us in the near future.

South Africa have their issues; Alviro Petersen as an opener, their number 6 batsman, 3rd seamer and spinner all being short of Test class means that they're reliant on a handful of, admittedly very good players. We saw what happened when they played Pakistan in the UAE and Steyn was rendered ineffective - a 0-0 drawn series. England, for some reason, seem to be the one side that a lot of the South African players really struggle against as well. South Africa also have their political issues - the obvious partner for Smith at the top of the order is Jacques Rudolph, yet the quota policy means that to select Rudolph they need to find another black, coloured or Asian cricketer elsewhere. I don't think a side can truly have a run at number 1 when they're prevented from picking their potential strongest XI.
I can't believe that people still believe that black/coloured/Indian players are selected on their race rather than their peformance. If Rudolph was good enough then he could have cemented his place in the Test team since the Aus series where he scored an unbetean century. But he wasn't good enough, hence he was dropped and not considered again, and it has nothing to do with his colour. To suggest that Alviro is a quota selection is to diminish the fact that he was the most obvious batsmen in line for selection. Alviro replaced Mckenzie, who is not coloured/black/indian, who was given plenty of chances to prove himself and he didn't. Rudolph is probably next in line, and should be if Duminy doesn't improve. But to suggest that he has been discriminated is rubbish. Pull his Test stats and see for yourself if he's good enough or not.
 

flibbertyjibber

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Huh? How's that got to do anything with this thread?
Well we keep getting told we won't do anything in Asia by people like you, didn't stop India being number 1 being crap away from there so even if England are poor in Asia they will still be good enough to remain number 1 for a long time as they will beat the rest and thrash everyone at home.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Not defending what bun said at all, but just to clear up, India weren't crap away from the subcontinent. Won in England in 07, 1-2 loss to Australia in 07/08, beat NZ in 09 and drew in SA in 10/11.

No not great, but not crap either.
 

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