How good is Sanga?

[smash84]

Funnily enough Sobers's record in NZ won't be questioned

 

[simonlee48]

The average drops to 35 if you include Pakistan's bowling in the UAE, that 39 average period just happens to end around the time of Ajmal's (whom Sanga has tamed as well as any international batsman - probably better) rise as well. The idea that subdividing stats into smaller sample sizes to provide "context" is just stupid given that the overall picture quite clearly shows that Sanga has scored heavily against all opposition (average of over 40 home/away against every test nation). His home record shows he can dominate consistently at home while his away record is full of examples (NZ 2006, 192 vs Aus 07/08, this last England series - just to name a few) where he has largely done the same, although understandably without the same consistency, hence there are a few holes in his record that hold him back in ATG discussions. The point is that inspecting these little holes doesn't tell you more than the overall record does

If anyone has watched games in UAE then it should be clear that Eng series in UAE had a totally different pitch. Both teams were getting bowled out for less than 250 consistently. Apart from that series, Pakistani bowlers in UAE have given 38-39 runs to pick one wicket each. If you want to include all UAE series + all home game in Pakistan in the last 10 years, still Pakistan has given 36-37 runs to pick up each wicket. It puts them second last behind BD in terms of home bowling unit.

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Don't agree with the bold at all. One good example is Jaya. His career average is 50+ but he is poor batsman as soon as he steps out of SL. Sanga is a far superior batsman and I do think that he will go down as legend. Many may not consider him ATG due to their personal different cut off but that's a different thing. My comments were only for him being a contender for being the best. He wasn't in contention 5 years ago and he hasn't done anything in the last 5 years to be in contention. Aggregate career avg doesn't mean much in that context despite it's going up in the last 5 years. That's the only point I was making.

 

[viriya]

A batsman who has averaged almost 65 with 18 hundreds over the last 5 years (~65 with 31 hundreds over last 10) hasn't done anything to be in contention? This is some amazing logic.

His ability to cash in vs relatively weak bowling attacks isn't automatically a negative if he has good records against all opposition. If anything, the question is why can't other batsmen do the same? Why hasn't any other batsman averaged ~80 vs Pak?

 

[Spark]

If anyone has watched games in UAE then it should be clear that Eng series in UAE had a totally different pitch. Both teams were getting bowled out for less than 250 consistently. Apart from that series, Pakistani bowlers in UAE have given 38-39 runs to pick one wicket each. If you want to include all UAE series + all home game in Pakistan in the last 10 years, still Pakistan has given 36-37 runs to pick up each wicket. It puts them second last behind BD in terms of home bowling unit.

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Don't agree with the bold at all. One good example is Jaya. His career average is 50+ but he is poor batsman as soon as he steps out of SL. Sanga is a far superior batsman and I do think that he will go down as legend. Many may not consider him ATG due to their personal different cut off but that's a different thing. My comments were only for him being a contender for being the best. He wasn't in contention 5 years ago and he hasn't done anything in the last 5 years to be in contention. Aggregate career avg doesn't mean much in that context despite it's going up in the last 5 years. That's the only point I was making.

I watched every ball of that series.

The scores had very, very little to do with the pitches, which were largely quite flat. It had far more to do with the fact that Ajmal, Rehman, Anderson and Broad are high quality bowlers and two **** batting lineups.

 

[simonlee48]

A batsman who has averaged almost 65 with 18 hundreds over the last 5 years hasn't done anything to be in contention? This is some amazing logic.

Do you realize that 5 hundreds and 1K runs came against BD? Here is his last 5 years against best 5 bowling units. What do you see special in this period that should put him in contention right now if he was not in contention 5 years ago?

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo


Sanga is a great batsman but he hasn't done anything special in the last 5 years to be in contention with the best despite his aggregate career avg going up in the same period. That's what I pointed out and then I am being shown his aggregate avg in the last 5 years and number of tons in the last 5 years. It's ironic.

 

[simonlee48]

I watched every ball of that series.

The scores had very, very little to do with the pitches, which were largely quite flat. It had far more to do with the fact that Ajmal, Rehman, Anderson and Broad are high quality bowlers and two **** batting lineups.

I disagree with this statement that pitches had very little to do with it. Sure, both batting line ups did poorly but pitches played it's part as well. I would love to have similar pitches in UAE all the time.

 

[Prince EWS]

I watched every ball of that series.

The scores had very, very little to do with the pitches, which were largely quite flat. It had far more to do with the fact that Ajmal, Rehman, Anderson and Broad are high quality bowlers and two **** batting lineups.

I watched every ball too (I'm sure you remember me in the tour thread ) and I wouldn't say they were "flat". Obviously the bowling in the series was far better than the batting, and the pitches were not the minefields the scorecards suggested, but I don't think "flat" or even "quite flat" does them justice. They actually encouraged a really even contest between bat and ball.

They turned a bit, albeit not extravagantly, and there was a little bit in them for the quicks with the new ball if they could hit the seam too.

I like that we have varying conditions for international cricket, but if those pitches set the standard for most Asian pitches with some deviation either way from that as a 'median pitch' if you like, I'd be really happy.

 

[Spark]

I watched every ball too (I'm sure you remember me in the tour thread ) and I wouldn't say they were "flat". Obviously the bowling in the series was far better than the batting, and the pitches were not the minefields the scorecards suggested, but I don't think "flat" or even "quite flat" does them justice. They actually encouraged a really even contest between bat and ball.

They turned a bit, albeit not extravagantly, and there was a little bit in them for the quicks with the new ball if they could hit the seam too.

I like that we have varying conditions for international cricket, but if those pitches set the standard for most Asian pitches with some deviation either way from that as a 'median pitch' if you like, I'd be really happy.

Hmm, I don't remember there being a great deal of movement for the quicks at all. I remember in particular that Broad and Anderson's performances were so notable because they weren't getting a great deal out of assistance.

Obviously the 2nd Test pitch turned a bit (I wouldn't call them extravagant either) and maybe flat was an exaggeration, but I don't think the pitches had a huge amount to do with the scores put up tbh.

 

[viriya]

Do you realize that 5 hundreds and 1K runs came against BD? Here is his last 5 years against best 5 bowling units. What do you see special in this period that should put him in contention right now if he was not in contention 5 years ago?

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo


Sanga is a great batsman but he hasn't done anything special in the last 5 years to be in contention with the best despite his aggregate career avg going up in the same period. That's what I pointed out and then I am being shown his aggregate avg in the last 5 years and number of tons in the last 5 years. It's ironic.

So vs just the better attacks he averaged 53.. That's around the career averages of Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting and Dravid.

The reason he is in contention for best since Bradman right now and not 5 years ago is because of the volume of runs and consistency. He has scored almost 5000 runs during that period while breaking the records for fastest to 8000, 9000, 10000 and 11000 runs (soon to be 12000). Batsmen go through purple patches for a couple years here and there during their careers but what Sangakkara has gone through is a purple patch lasting 10 years - it is unheard of with almost no precedent.

 

[kyear2]

Funnily enough Sobers's record in NZ won't be questioned

You have got to let go of your "tear down Sobers" crusade.

 

[Jono]

I think we can all agree that Sanga is awesome.

Other than Jassy of course. Has he posted since Sanga killed it in England?

 

[Maximas]

No, and if he ever does I'll be interested to see if he updates his sig

 

[Jono]

Seriously he called AB a front runner and was proven wrong in the very thread he said it. Now Sanga. What a year for Jassy.

 

[YorksLanka]

yeah i must admit, i was wondering where he was as he was adamant with me also that Sanga would flop here and i would be eating humble pie for biggin him up..

 

[Red]

yeah i must admit, i was wondering where he was as he was adamant with me also that Sanga would flop here and i would be eating humble pie for biggin him up..

Humble brag

 

[Furball]

Hmm, I don't remember there being a great deal of movement for the quicks at all. I remember in particular that Broad and Anderson's performances were so notable because they weren't getting a great deal out of assistance.

Obviously the 2nd Test pitch turned a bit (I wouldn't call them extravagant either) and maybe flat was an exaggeration, but I don't think the pitches had a huge amount to do with the scores put up tbh.

Did Ajmal actually turn a ball that series?

With Spark on this one. The pitches weren't great but the batting from both sides was hopeless.

 

[The Sean]

I see many claiming that Sanga should be talked as the best in world because his career aggregate record has been going up and up in the last 5 years.

Career aggregates very, very rarely go down over time.

 

[simonlee48]

Career aggregates very, very rarely go down over time.

I meant aggregate average and for many great batsmen, it goes down.

 

[Blocky]

And against one of the greatest fast bowling attacks of the modern era on a deteriorating pitch, he's hit over 100 runs in the match at a good strike rate and is keeping his side in the match. Anyone who attempts to dampen the suggestion that Sanga is simply the best modern batsman of our times is fast running out of material to claim that.

Best since Bradman, in my view.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Anyone who attempts to dampen the suggestion that Sanga is simply the best modern batsman of our times is fast running out of material to claim that.

Would like to know what you mean by "our times".
Does belong on the argument for any great batsman discussion though.