How good a bowler was Dennis Lillee?

[pasag]

Wasn't that Botham?

 

[The Sean]

I was sure it was Lillee, but I'm happy to be corrected if not the case.

 

[Richard]

That was definately Botham, I know that one.

 

[Richard]

Knee injury. He missed a lot of 81 and most of 82 with it. The test vs. NZ in Christchurch was the last he played until England's visit to Australia at the end of 1982.

Again, from his 2003 autobiography:
"My knee had been playing up before the tour started but in Christchurch the cartilage went and I couldn't carry on... Although the season was nearly over, I was out for a long time, missing our series in Pakistan the following September and October... Meantime, I had an operation which did not work..."

Aha.

Unlike you not to check your facts before making an allegation like that tbh.

'Tis, TBH. As I say, I really had nowhere to look the matter up on.

 

[Sanz]

Wasn't that Botham?

Botham didn't say that he wanted his mother-in-law to be buried there, he said Pakistan is a country where he would send his mother-in-law, apparently after a tough tour in 87.

From what I have heard/read, It was Bishen Singh Bedi who said that he wanted to be buried @ the Graveyard of pitch at Faislabad.

 

[social]

Lillee described the Faislabad Pitch as 'Graveyard' of fast bowlers. Rest of all is people adding one and one and making it up as 11 instead of 2.

Greg Chappell described it as being "unfit for test cricket" despite scoring 235 - sums it up really

 

[Fusion]

Botham didn't say that he wanted his mother-in-law to be buried there, he said Pakistan is a country where he would send his mother-in-law, apparently after a tough tour in 87.

One of my fondest memories is Aamir Sohail asking Botham to send in his mother-in-law to bat after Botham's dismissal in the '92 WC Final.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

Source or link for that? I've never heard that. I'm highly dubious as to whether its true.

I don't think that you need a link to prove that as whatever Richard said is well known amongst the cricket circles of the world.

 

[The Sean]

Is it?

 

[BhupinderSingh]

Is it?

Yep

 

[SJS]

Sir Donald Bradman and Richie Benaud have both picked the all time world XI's (Richie calls his the 20th century XI). There are only four players common in boththe teams. Only one of these four is a pure bowler. His name : Dennis Lillee.

Maybe The Don and Richie are ignorant about the game, maybe they are terribly biased, maybe we know much better then both of them- after all some of us dont even think Lillee can be called an 'excellent' bowler.

 

[Matt79]

Aha.

'Tis, TBH. As I say, I really had nowhere to look the matter up on.

Just don't let it happen again then!

 

[Richard]

Sir Donald Bradman and Richie Benaud have both picked the all time world XI's (Richie calls his the 20th century XI). There are only four players common in boththe teams. Only one of these four is a pure bowler. His name : Dennis Lillee.

Maybe The Don and Richie are ignorant about the game, maybe they are terribly biased, maybe we know much better then both of them- after all some of us dont even think Lillee can be called an 'excellent' bowler.

I don't really think anyone who is generally taken seriously would contend that he was not an excellent bowler.

Thing is, though, both cases (IIRR - certainly in the Benaud one) were the teams they'd most like to play for them, rather than the 11 players they thought were the best.

 

[Richard]

I don't think that you need a link to prove that as whatever Richard said is well known amongst the cricket circles of the world.

Is it?

Yep

It seems the info Matt (of the 79 variety) has dredged-up suggests that he never actually turned down a tour of Pakistan on such grounds. However, I still find it strange that such an idea should be quite commonly put about (as I say, there have been several - and not just C_C, Shoaib\BhupinderSingh and amz - who've made such a claim on these forums in my time) and have no basis whatsoever - perhaps Lillee once said, for example, "I'll be happy if I never tour Pakistan again - the pitch at Faisalabad especially is just a fast bowler's graveyard". This would explain such a thing.

 

[Matt79]

That might be possible, but given Lillee's character and commitment to the team, I'd guess he'd take it as a huge insult to suggest he'd put his own preferences (and presumably the suggestion is, statistics) ahead of the good of the team - ie. that he'd refuse to play when the team (selectors) felt he was needed.

 

[Matt79]

It seems the info Matt (of the 79 variety) has dredged-up

Dredged up?? As in, referred to the autobiography of the player being discussed? Given the subject, I'd hardly rate it as an obscure or unlikely source!

 

[Richard]

Heh, I often use "dredged-up" simply to mean "said what no-one else had yet said" TBH. Not neccessarily any big secrets-act-covered thing.

 

[Richard]

That might be possible, but given Lillee's character and commitment to the team, I'd guess he'd take it as a huge insult to suggest he'd put his own preferences (and presumably the suggestion is, statistics) ahead of the good of the team - ie. that he'd refuse to play when the team (selectors) felt he was needed.

He could have said such a thing meaning purely that he'd be happy if the team never toured again - not neccessarily meaning that he'd turn down a tour his team were undertaking.

Nonetheless, if he went and averaged 100 again, he'd hardly have been any great use to the team, would he?

 

[Matt79]

Yeah, but my point was those two scenarios are completely different things.

 

[Richard]

And my point is that maybe some sentiments that were quite possibly present (ie, "I hate Pakistan, I've no chance of doing well there "just because" so therefore I don't want to tour there again") didn't manifest themselves quite as some would suggest, but nonetheless had some sort of substance.