How good a bowler was Dennis Lillee?

[Sanz]

That's an exaggeration TBH, it upsets a few people, some of whom are only upset so as they have an excuse to make a fuss, but most are quite happy - indeed prefer - to be referred to by real-name rather than posting-ID (if different - which it ain't in the case of he behind this post).

If there was a post full of lies, then it is this.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24752

 

[Sanz]

I don't think it is. I think there are many subjects people on CW know better than many writers and commentators on. The Lillee subject being one.

Care to name a few of those esteemed CW members who know about Lillee more than Imran, Gavaskar, Chappell, Benaud etc ? Have they come out and said so ?

Most of those who are saying some ridiculous stuff and making some laughable claims about Lillee have not even watched him bowl, their whole analysis is based on 4 tests Lillee played in Pakistan and Lanka.

 

[Burgey]

Loving this thread. It's like a persistent virus - just when it looks like it's gone, it comes back as aggressive as ever.

It could go on to rival the Warne v Murali thread if we can keep the fires burning.

 

[JBMAC]

Care to name a few of those esteemed CW members who know about Lillee more than Imran, Gavaskar, Chappell, Benaud etc ? Have they come out and said so ?

Most of those who are saying some ridiculous stuff and making some laughable claims about Lillee have not even watched him bowl, their whole analysis is based on 4 tests Lillee played in Pakistan and Lanka.

I was fortunate to play against Lillee when he was coming back from his surgery. He was only bowling at a gentle pace for him and even then he was virtually unplayable. His guile was the thing that made him"fearsome". So, I agree with your statement regarding most of the comments made about him and the sub-continent. If you took only Bradmans four innings at the start of his career you would say he was a failure too.
When making an assessment of this ilk one needs to take into consideration "the Whole picture" NOT just a cameo performance...ie his whole career and his Value to the team as a whole ...Do that and you will see he was a Champion.

 

[SJS]

I was fortunate to play against Lillee when he was coming back from his surgery. He was only bowling at a gentle pace for him and even then he was virtually unplayable. His guile was the thing that made him"fearsome". .

WOW !!!

 

[BhupinderSingh]

If you took only Bradmans four innings at the start of his career you would say he was a failure too.
When making an assessment of this ilk one needs to take into consideration "the Whole picture" NOT just a cameo performance...ie his whole career and his Value to the team as a whole ...Do that and you will see he was a Champion.

Bradman played those 4 innings at the start of his career but Lillee palyed those 4 tests after establishing himself as one of the best bowlers in the world.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

By-and-large, those who get stuff printed are not that type. And I've said it many times before, there are plenty of CW posters who are far more educated about the game than those who've managed to get in print.

Agreed.

 

[JBMAC]

Bradman played those 4 innings at the start of his career but Lillee palyed those 4 tests after establishing himself as one of the best bowlers in the world.

OH don't be so bloody pedantic and singleminded....I used that as a comparison of 4 tests only.....I could have said John Jones or Smith

 

[Perm]

WOW !!!

My thoughts exactly.

 

[archie mac]

OH don't be so bloody pedantic and singleminded....I used that as a comparison of 4 tests only.....I could have said John Jones or Smith

Don't worry mate, they are clutching at straws (wet ones)

 

[Matt79]

Torn between wanting this thread locked on the grounds of general direness, and wanting to keep it open to see how many more pages the anti-Lillee camp can generate from 4 tests where conditions weren't just "not green-tops", they were horrendous for any quick, and where Lillee was screwed by the umpires.

 

[SJS]

Not true, if people think Imran better or Marshall or even Larwood, I have no problem at all, but when they say things like 'Lillee can't be considered because he failed in Pakistan" then I will take umbridge every time

Why the 'bridge' Archie_Mac

 

[Richard]

Care to name a few of those esteemed CW members who know about Lillee more than Imran, Gavaskar, Chappell, Benaud etc ? Have they come out and said so ?

Most of those who are saying some ridiculous stuff and making some laughable claims about Lillee have not even watched him bowl, their whole analysis is based on 4 tests Lillee played in Pakistan and Lanka.

No it's not. And often those who judge Lillee to be so superior to everyone else ever do not even take any notice of such things, which I find baffling, frankly. So yes, I think CW posters do know more than them on such subjects.

 

[Richard]

If there was a post full of lies, then it is this.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24752

I really have nothing more to say to you on this matter. I can, quite easily, if I want to, prove why most posters do not mind being called by real names. But I don't. Because I'm sick of being dragged into flame-wars by you, as this reflects poorly on the site.

 

[Richard]

Maybe you should qualify that by saying some on CW

A stretegic insertion of a "some" would indeed be more grammatically correct, and leave less room for mistaken interpretation. Hope you're happier with the amended version?

 

[Ikki]

No it's not. And often those who judge Lillee to be so superior to everyone else ever do not even take any notice of such things, which I find baffling, frankly. So yes, I think CW posters do know more than them on such subjects.

Might be because regardless of that fact that his performances outside those 4 tests puts him in a place where a lot of people, fans/commentators/colleagues alike, still view him as the greatest ever? At the very least, mixing it with the 2-3 best.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

Torn between wanting this thread locked on the grounds of general direness, and wanting to keep it open to see how many more pages the anti-Lillee camp can generate from 4 tests where conditions weren't just "not green-tops", they were horrendous for any quick, and where Lillee was screwed by the umpires.

Its completely wrong that he was screwed,if this was the case then Sarfaraz Nawaz & Pakistani bowlers other than Imran Khan would've also been successful.

 

[Matt79]

That actually isn't necessarily true.

And every account I've read of that series is consistent in saying the Aussies had a shocking run from the umpires. In one match for example there were 10 lbws given to the Pakistani bowlers and either one or none (can't recall which) to the Australians. As I've said before in this thread, Lillee states in his autobiography that one of the umpires told him he'd have to knock over the stumps to get a wicket. Now if that's not true, I'd be curious as to why he hasn't been sued for defamation by the umpire he's impugning. And I suppose there's never been biased umpiring by home umpires anywhere - that's why the ICC went to the trouble of creating the elite panel and barring umpires from officiating in tests involving their own country.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

That actually isn't necessarily true.

And every account I've read of that series is consistent in saying the Aussies had a shocking run from the umpires. In one match for example there were 10 lbws given to the Pakistani bowlers and either one or none (can't recall which) to the Australians. As I've said before in this thread, Lillee states in his autobiography that one of the umpires told him he'd have to knock over the stumps to get a wicket. Now if that's not true, I'd be curious as to why he hasn't been sued for defamation by the umpire he's impugning. And I suppose there's never been biased umpiring by home umpires anywhere - that's why the ICC went to the trouble of creating the elite panel and barring umpires from officiating in tests involving their own country.

The most uproar in favour of appointing neutral umpires was made by none other than Imran Khan.And Lillee is expected to make lame excuses as he failed in Pakistan.In those,every country used to have biased umpires to favour the home team but on wickets on which Lillee failed,its not possible for umpires to be much biased.And regarding LBW appeals,almost every good bowler when he gets frustrated after going for runs without taking a wicket,he makes unncessary LBW & caught
behind,same is the thing Lillee would've most probably done after getting smashed all around the ground in that series.And,I don't understand how umpires would only benefit Imran Khan as it is said that they were most biased towards Sarfaraz & weren't really fond of Imran Khan.

 

[neville cardus]

I can do TGCSWEPITP, if you wish, but the full version may roughly double the time it takes me to post.

How about "Sir Nev."?