How did India become the No. 1 Test Side?

[Spark]

2 wins in last 21 tests collectively in Aus, SA, Eng and Nz and clear number one my ass. There are bunch of equal teams who feast at home fail away. Get back to me when India actually win a series not when yeah but it was close or we didn't pick that guy bullocks.

Does that stretch back to the 2011-12 tours? Bit weird to include those.

 

[harsh.ag]

2 wins in last 21 tests collectively in Aus, SA, Eng and Nz and clear number one my ass. There are bunch of equal teams who feast at home fail away. Get back to me when India actually win a series not when yeah but it was close or we didn't pick that guy bullocks.

Indeed.

Pujara has to show up in England for India to win.

 

[Tom Flint]

Pujara hardly turned up in the county championship this season

 

[srbhkshk]

Pujara hardly turned up in the county championship this season

He doesn't need to score heavily tbh, just shield Kohli till the swing goes down and he will do the rest. But to be recognized as a good batsman by himself, he will have to get a couple hundreds.

 

[Spark]

He doesn't need to score heavily tbh, just shield Kohli till the swing goes down and he will do the rest. But to be recognized as a good batsman by himself, he will have to get a couple hundreds.

He's a way better batsman than just being basically a ____-watchman for the middle order, but he really does seem to have severe problems with run-scoring on pitches with bounce. Not so much surviving, just can't rotate strike.

 

[sunilz]

2 wins in last 21 tests collectively in Aus, SA, Eng and Nz and clear number one my ass. There are bunch of equal teams who feast at home fail away. Get back to me when India actually win a series not when yeah but it was close or we didn't pick that guy bullocks.

Doesn't matter.
If Ponting can be considered ATG despite having less runs and less average in ASIA as compared to KOHLI outside outside ASIA than INDIA can also be considered to be no.1 side

PONTING IN ASIA
All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

KOHLI OUTSIDE ASIA
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

KOHLI already has more than twice century outside ASIA in 6 years as compared to PONTING in 16 years in ASIA

So if PONTING CAN be ATG so India can also be no.1
And don't bring execuses like he was rubbish also in INDIA. For an ATG player PONTING averages too low in ASIA

 

[Motorwada]

2 wins in last 21 tests collectively in Aus, SA, Eng and Nz and clear number one my ass. There are bunch of equal teams who feast at home fail away. Get back to me when India actually win a series not when yeah but it was close or we didn't pick that guy bullocks.

Rubbish. You are including matches that happened way way back and is just some statistical skewing with lineups full of people that have retired. I can also do similar. Aus has 2 wins in 23 tests collectively in Ind, Pak, UAE since the Mum 2004 test.

And there are no bunch of equal teams who feast at home. India haven't lost a home series since in the last 4 years (Periods when rankings are calculated) and only a single match. That is way better than all other teams home performances who have all lost series. So all home teams may feast but India's feasting is the grandest of all.

And India anyway has the best away record in the last 4 years. It might include only two matches in SENA countries - Lords 2014 and Wanderers 2018 but Aus has also won just two matches in Asia in that time period - Pune 2017 and 2nd test in Bangladesh series and SA also just one in the 2014 SL series.

 

[subshakerz]

1. Massive selection errors with no Bhuvi/Rahane
2. How exactly are Aus/SA more competitive away than India? Aus has whitewashes in SL, UAE, draw in Bang, loss in Eng and a competitive loss in India. Their away series win in SA is balanced by their home series loss against SA. SA has a 0-3 in Ind, 1-3 in Eng and their away series win in Aus is balanced by their home series loss against Aus. Taking India's far superior home record too Ind are clearly no 1. In fact in last 4 years Ind has best away W/L ratio as well. No 1 isn't being an ATG team. It's about being better than the others. And India has enough evidence to claim themselves to be the best all round team in the world. In Asian conditions and WI they are god like and they have shown they can compete well in pace friendly conditions in this series.

1. Selection errors is no excuse, sorry. That goes down to the captain's competency in making decisions.

2. To be fair, let us use the current captains. The only away series Kohli has won are in Sri Lanka and West Indies, and then one loss in SA. Australia under Smith won in NZ, was whitewashed in Sri Lanka but competed well but lost in India and drew in Bangladesh. SA under FAF won in Australia and NZ but lost in England. So they all are fairly competitive away with mixed results, edge to SA. Until Kohli actually win or at least draw a series in England or Australia, there is little case that his side is more competitive away than other sides.

And as Australia showed last year, India at home are not necessarily godlike. In fact, Australia were much more competitive in India than India were just now in SA.

So without any real track record in decent foreign conditions, how can you say India is the best all-round team in the world? On this below-par performance in SA? Can you seriously claim their top six or their bowling attack is better than SA?

 

[sunilz]

INDIA have best overseas record in last 4 years
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

Keep applying filter to satisfy yourself.
MCGRATH has only 1 fiver in ASIA . One can also use these type of rubbish stats to denigrate any player greatness

 

[srbhkshk]

So without any real track record in decent foreign conditions, how can you say India is the best all-round team in the world? On this below-par performance in SA? Can you seriously claim their top six or their bowling attack is better than SA?

#1 team is a different question, but yeah I will claim India's top 6 and bowlers are better then SA. They do better against SA in grasslands than SA do against India in dustbowls.

 

[sunilz]

So India winning in WI is same as AUS drawing in Bangladesh .
And SA losing both home and away to Eng doesn,t matter at all.

W/L ratio in last 4 years. SA are no where close to being considered no.1

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2014;spanval2=span;template=results;type=team

 

[Gob]

Does that stretch back to the 2011-12 tours? Bit weird to include those.

Fair enough but even from the more recent events its still its 4 out 4 series defeats for 'team India' in their last outings to those countries which to me makes any claim to be the 'clear number one' hilarious.

Ftr i dunno how their current standing of won where/beat whom all that better than Australia a team that consistently get stick for being bad away from home and rightly so. Sl to India is what Nz to Australia and both beat WI away anyway. The only blip for Aust at home compared to India is the defeat to SA but they compensate that by beating them away and i'd throw a pie at your face and run away screaming if you tell me that Australia is a clear number one at this point. Stuff like being more competitive while losing prob make you the better one out of the bad lot but ultimately what really counts for me are series wins and i will wait till India win a series before claiming that they are anything more than the better one out of the bad lot

ftr i'm not WI/Aust undisputed best blah blah type anyway. I thought England was a clear number one for a while especially after winning India and SA was probably the last clear number one when they beat England and Aust away in space of few months.

 

[subshakerz]

Rubbish. You are including matches that happened way way back and is just some statistical skewing with lineups full of people that have retired. I can also do similar. Aus has 2 wins in 23 tests collectively in Ind, Pak, UAE since the Mum 2004 test.

And there are no bunch of equal teams who feast at home. India haven't lost a home series since in the last 4 years (Periods when rankings are calculated) and only a single match. That is way better than all other teams home performances who have all lost series. So all home teams may feast but India's feasting is the grandest of all.

And India anyway has the best away record in the last 4 years. It might include only two matches in SENA countries - Lords 2014 and Wanderers 2018 but Aus has also won just two matches in Asia in that time period - Pune 2017 and 2nd test in Bangladesh series and SA also just one in the 2014 SL series.

India never lost a test series at home from 1987-1999. Nobody cared. In fact, unless you are an all-time great side like 80s WI or 2000s Australia, being uber strong at home usually means that your side is simply too used to its home conditions to challenge outside.

It is laughable to use India losing in SA as a case for why they are no.1. Competing is not good enough to claim you are the best. At least draw a series and then we can start talking.

 

[sunilz]

Yes AUS inability to win even in Bangladesh and getting whitewashed in SL is same as India winning in WI and being competetive in SA.

 

[Motorwada]

1. Selection errors is no excuse, sorry. That goes down to the captain's competency in making decisions.

2. To be fair, let us use the current captains. The only away series Kohli has won are in Sri Lanka and West Indies, and then one loss in SA. Australia under Smith won in NZ, was whitewashed in Sri Lanka but competed well but lost in India and drew in Bangladesh. SA under FAF won in Australia and NZ but lost in England. So they all are fairly competitive away with mixed results, edge to SA. Until Kohli actually win or at least draw a series in England or Australia, there is little case that his side is more competitive away than other sides.

And as Australia showed last year, India at home are not necessarily godlike. In fact, Australia were much more competitive in India than India were just now in SA.

So without any real track record in decent foreign conditions, how can you say India is the best all-round team in the world? On this below-par performance in SA? Can you seriously claim their top six or their bowling attack is better than SA?

I disagree with your assessment. Kohli has won 2 series in SL and WI and a competitive loss in SA. Smith won in NZ, was whitewashed in SL, draw in Bangladesh and a competitive loss in India. You can't claim that these are both equal unless India is actually whitewashed under Kohli in a SENA country to compensate for the SL 0-3. Ind in SL and Aus in NZ are similar and Ind in SA and Aus in Ind are similar. Also there is no SENA team equivalent of Bangladesh where India can actually draw a series. So unless Ind is whitewashed in a SENA country (or Aus wins in Asia) Kohli's away record is superior. Faf hasn't played a single test series in Asia so it's not even in the picture.

As for India being godlike, they have just lost one match in the last four years which was that Pune match. All other teams have lost series. Even the great Aus/WI team used to drop a few home matches here and there. If that is not godlike I don't know what is. And I'd say that Australia's performance in India was similar to Ind's performance in SA except Aus's win on the doctored pitch came in the first test while Ind's in the last.

And I can seriously claim that Ind's top six and bowling attack is better than SA's because it was this same team that played almost the same SA team in Ind and India there did way better than SA have done this series. SA might be a bit better than Ind in SA conditions but Ind are way better than them in Ind conditions. So across conditions, the Indian batting and bowling are much superior to SA.

 

[subshakerz]

Here is the thing, in terms of assessing a team, you should get less credit overall for your overseas victories if you lose more frequently at home (SA), but you shouldnt get extra credit for your lack of achievement abroad based on being undefeated at home (India).

 

[Motorwada]

India never lost a test series at home from 1987-1999. Nobody cared. In fact, unless you are an all-time great side like 80s WI or 2000s Australia, being uber strong at home usually means that your side is simply too used to its home conditions to challenge outside.

It is laughable to use India losing in SA as a case for why they are no.1. Competing is not good enough to claim you are the best. At least draw a series and then we can start talking.

To be no 1 you don't have to be the greatest team of all time just better than others which India is. 1987-99 Ind never lsot a test series at home but other teams were not so poor away compared to Ind who were really poor. In this age of poor travelers (in which Ind is the best but not by much) home records can be used as a tie breaker.

 

[Gob]

India never lost a test series at home from 1987-1999. Nobody cared. In fact, unless you are an all-time great side like 80s WI or 2000s Australia, being uber strong at home usually means that your side is simply too used to its home conditions to challenge outside.

It is laughable to use India losing in SA as a case for why they are no.1. Competing is not good enough to claim you are the best. At least draw a series and then we can start talking.

Pretty much. What ever floats your boat i guess but i'm supporting Aust and as competitive as they were in India it meant **** all when they lost it no way should it positively effect them when you rate the best team in the world.

 

[vcs]

India, Australia and SA are very close together at the top. You could argue for any of them. England were in the argument as well but have fallen away a bit of late after thrashings in Australia and India, but they have a positive record against SA.

I think India did well in SA but they will have to compete well in England and Australia and draw (or win) at least one of those series to keep the No. 1 ranking. If they lose both, they will definitely be overtaken by SA or Australia.

 

[Motorwada]

Fair enough but even from the more recent events its still its 4 out 4 series defeats for 'team India' in their last outings to those countries which to me makes any claim to be the 'clear number one' hilarious.

Ftr i dunno how their current standing of won where/beat whom all that better than Australia a team that consistently get stick for being bad away from home and rightly so. Sl to India is what Nz to Australia and both beat WI away anyway. The only blip for Aust at home compared to India is the defeat to SA but they compensate that by beating them away and i'd throw a pie at your face and run away screaming if you tell me that Australia is a clear number one at this point. Stuff like being more competitive while losing prob make you the better one out of the bad lot but ultimately what really counts for me are series wins and i will wait till India win a series before claiming that they are anything more than the better one out of the bad lot

ftr i'm not WI/Aust undisputed best blah blah type anyway. I thought England was a clear number one for a while especially after winning India and SA was probably the last clear number one when they beat England and Aust away in space of few months.

Since the away records of all teams are bad (with Ind's being the best) what better way to compensate then by comparing home records? Ind has best away W/L ratio in the last 4 years, best home W/L ratio in the last 4 years.