How come Hingston/Saffies in general don't like Kevin Pietersen ?

[Salamuddin]

I always thought Rich "Langeveldt" Hingston was a true-blue Pommy from Somerset who took more than a passing interest in the Proteas.

If so then why does he dislike KP so much - because KP also has a background that straddles both countries.
I mean if it's all about betrayal and all that shabang,,,,,c'mon it's agame.....it's not like KP sold South African state secrets to Tony Blair's government....he made a decison in the interests of his professional career by playing for England - something we all do .

 

[nightprowler10]

Might have something to do with the fact that KP quite often mouths off about his gripes against South African cricket.

 

[Goughy]

From my observations, South Africa is a complicated country. It is very economically, socially, linguistically, culturally and historically diverse.

Previously it was the oppressive National Party government that held the country together.

Now, in the new South Africa, there is nothing holding the people together apart from Mandela as an icon and an insecure but fervent belief that in order to to survive they all must try to get along as best they can. To do that, and try and put the past behind them, they bind behind the flag and positive nationalistic feelings towards the new SA.

SA is still very precarious politically and all thoughts towards the young democracy tend to be positive as there is a fear it could all come down.

People like KP are disliked because they buck this trend and also voice what others are afraid to think

Anyway, thats one posibility.

 

[Langeveldt]

Hah no i've lived in South Africa for a fair bit of my life so have at least a grasp of what goes on and who calls the shots..

Lots of players leave SA and come to the UK, whether it be to further their careers or earn more money, and I don't have the slightest problem with that.. I do similar and would rather earn my bucks in England and spend them elsewhere..

My main gripe with KP is his continued mouthing at "the system" - One which has produced players like AB de Villiers, Dale Steyn, Makhaya Ntini and Graham Smith. One where white or black, pink or purple, players of quality are still being produced. I'm not naive enough to think that white cricketers are not becoming disillusioned with the transformation process, but if players are talented enough, they will mostly hit the top and I know several white cricketers who are doing very well for themselves in the new South Africa.. I'm sorry to hear Goughy paint a much more gloomy picture up north however..

Let us not forget Pietersen was nothing special when he left KZN.. A chappie by the name of Goolam Bodi who hit a century the other day I think was the main man who took his place, and if I remember correctly, quite rightly..

Now one way or another Pietersen has made his name as a world class cricketer with England.. but what I dislike most is his penchant for slating the system back in South Africa, a country which thank the lord above, now has nothing at all to do with him,, Okay we are all bitter behind the new flag because we wish that such a talent was playing for us, but his comments about things that no longer concern him, not to mention his new found worship for Hansie Cronje and the defense of what he did, leaves me wishing he would just put up, shut up, and score some runs for his newfound England..

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Graham Smith

Hehe, the guy who's now gone 17 Tests without a century against class opposition...

 

[Langeveldt]

Hehe, the guy who's now gone 17 Tests without a century against class opposition...

why is that relevant to anything? You might have a point if he didn't average 49.25 in test cricket...

 

[Magrat Garlick]

why is that relevant to anything? You might have a point if he didn't average 49.25 in test cricket...

Vinod Kambli averages 56. Your point?

Smith has been pretty much dire in Test cricket (excluding Zim and WI) since after the innings where Nass dropped a skier on 8. Plus he's scared of opening against the swinging ball, and he's now officially Zaheer Khan's bunny.

"Class player"?

 

[superkingdave]

tbf it wasn't a skyer, IIRC he cut waist height to point

 

[Langeveldt]

Vinod Kambli averages 56. Your point?

Smith has been pretty much dire in Test cricket (excluding Zim and WI) since after the innings where Nass dropped a skier on 8. Plus he's scared of opening against the swinging ball, and he's now officially Zaheer Khan's bunny.

"Class player"?

You make out that just because he's done sod all this year, he's a useless player.. He's played three times more than Kambli, a poor example really.. Not to mention captaining us to a win against Australia in ODI's.. Sorry that the series was "irrelevant", but I call that an achievement for a 22/3 year old.. And a good example of what "the system" can do..

It's like saying that because Tendulkar did sweet FA for a year or so, he is a poor player.. For such a quality poster, that is a really poor go, you could have used Steyn or de Villiers as examples for having far less to shout about, but no...

 

[Magrat Garlick]

You make out that just because he's done sod all this year, he's a useless player.. He's played three times more than Kambli, a poor example really.. Not to mention captaining us to a win against Australia in ODI's.. Sorry that the series was "irrelevant", but I call that an achievement for a 22/3 year old.. And a good example of what "the system" can do..

It's like saying that because Tendulkar did sweet FA for a year or so, he is a poor player.. For such a quality poster, that is a really poor go, you could have used Steyn or de Villiers as examples for having far less to shout about, but no...

Fair enough. He does have a decent record and I suppose it was a bit OTT. But it's a three-year-period now where he's really got sod all to shout about in Tests, and if ODIs are anything to go by, he'll not do much against India either.

Hey, that'd be a nice avatar bet, actually...if he makes more than 200 runs in the Tests I'll put his mug up for three months.

 

[Goughy]

Just lost a massive post. Anyway Ive probably posted enough long posts today, its just annoying to lose something that Id actually spent a fair time researching.

It went something like this.
Rich, the list you mention of the quality produced by the system is not great evidence. 2 of the guys you mention are kids unproven at the top level. Compared to any list of similar players of any semi-recent period in SA cricket history it looks weak. If anything it is evidence that the system is producing poorer 'quality' players and less of them. But of course it would when the half the players that would have been in the system are no longer there.

Also, I cant believe people think KP shouldnt speak about his time in SA. It is clearly a defining part of his life that he is perfectly entitled to address. The incidents completely changed his life. I would be amazed if he didnt have strong feelings or say anything. Imagine the most important thing that has ever happened in your life and being told to shut-up and that you had no right to say anything about it. No doubt KP is a strange fruit, but he is entitled to express feeling about moments that shook his life.

Also its not just KP. Look at Claude Hendersen. He left after Omar Henry told him he was 5th in line behind about 2 good bowlers and 2 poor ones (Ontong being 1) when many considered him to be the best spinner in the country. Now look at last seasons leading Supersport Series wickettaker (Paul Harris) leaving and signing a Kolpak with Warwickshire because he is being ignored and placed behind guys like your good mate, Peterson.

Now if you dont believe me about the implications of being a white cricketer in SA read the following quote from Gerald Majola, SA Cricket boss.

We don't have quotas, we've never had quotas, we have targets. In 10 years' time the majority of this team will be black, that is our target. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/other_international/south_africa/4253241.stm

Nothing to do with being the best team in the world and certainly nothing to make an up-an-coming white cricketer think he has a future.

Anyway, my lost post was longer and more elequant than this but it will have to do.

 

[Goughy]

KP also has a background that straddles both countries .

For educational purposes the term is Soutpiel

 

[Craig]

Just lost a massive post. Anyway Ive probably posted enough long posts today, its just annoying to lose something that Id actually spent a fair time researching.

It went something like this.
Rich, the list you mention of the quality produced by the system is not great evidence. 2 of the guys you mention are kids unproven at the top level. Compared to any list of similar players of any semi-recent period in SA cricket history it looks weak. If anything it is evidence that the system is producing poorer 'quality' players and less of them. But of course it would when the half the players that would have been in the system are no longer there.

Also, I cant believe people think KP shouldnt speak about his time in SA. It is clearly a defining part of his life that he is perfectly entitled to address. The incidents completely changed his life. I would be amazed if he didnt have strong feelings or say anything. Imagine the most important thing that has ever happened in your life and being told to shut-up and that you had no right to say anything about it. No doubt KP is a strange fruit, but he is entitled to express feeling about moments that shook his life.

Also its not just KP. Look at Claude Hendersen. He left after Omar Henry told him he was 5th in line behind about 2 good bowlers and 2 poor ones (Ontong being 1) when many considered him to be the best spinner in the country. Now look at last seasons leading Supersport Series wickettaker (Paul Harris) leaving and signing a Kolpak with Warwickshire because he is being ignored and placed behind guys like your good mate, Peterson.

Now if you dont believe me about the implications of being a white cricketer in SA read the following quote from Gerald Majola, SA Cricket boss.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/other_international/south_africa/4253241.stm

Nothing to do with being the best team in the world and certainly nothing to make an up-an-coming white cricketer think he has a future.

Anyway, my lost post was longer and more elequant than this but it will have to do.

But wouldn't a white player who's old man knew people in the higher ranks of SA cricket actually be helpful to him? I remember reading on a different forum when Smith became captain somebody speculated that his dad knew people on board, of course that probably isn't true.

 

[Poker Boy]

Fair enough. He does have a decent record and I suppose it was a bit OTT. But it's a three-year-period now where he's really got sod all to shout about in Tests, and if ODIs are anything to go by, he'll not do much against India either.

Hey, that'd be a nice avatar bet, actually...if he makes more than 200 runs in the Tests I'll put his mug up for three months.

Since the Lord's test of 2003 Grahame Smith has scored 2621 runs for SA at an average of 42.96 with 7 centuries. But there are lies, damn lies and statitics! Of his seven centuries five have been against the worst WI attack in living memory, one against Zimbabwe who had one good bowler (streak) and the other was against a Bond less NZ. No centuries against Australia, England (since we learned how to bowl at him), India, Pakistan or Sri Lanka. You have to wonder that if he wasn't the captain....and if he keeps struggling, will he do what he did against England when Hoggy had the wood over him and escape down the order.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Had a post in here before, but it disappeared for some reason.

Pietersen annoys the hell out of me, but he's a rare talent. I think he'll be one of the better batsmen in the world, but will be a bit too inconsistent to rate as an all-time great. Being such an eye player and fairly reckless will see him go through some lengthy form slumps IMO, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him absolutely dominate in between. Similar to someone like Sehwag or Gilchrist in the last 2-3 years.

Having said that, some batsmen (Waugh, Ponting, Kallis etc) mature a great deal in their late 20s/early 30s and become much improved batsmen, so who knows what he's capable of?

 

[Langeveldt]

It went something like this.
Rich, the list you mention of the quality produced by the system is not great evidence. 2 of the guys you mention are kids unproven at the top level. Compared to any list of similar players of any semi-recent period in SA cricket history it looks weak. If anything it is evidence that the system is producing poorer 'quality' players and less of them. But of course it would when the half the players that would have been in the system are no longer there..

I don't understand what "incidents" you talk about.. Okay he was told that he was going to lose his place to a player of colour and that he shouldn't bother trying, but there was nothing about him at the time to suggest that he had become a test cricketer.. He certainly wasn't any better than the competition, so I don't understand what his gripe is..

And of all the players we have "lost", which of them would be worthy of representing South Africa had they stayed there? The only ones I can think of are Pietersen obviously, and perhaps Jonathon Trott.. I certainly don't think Henderson was any great loss...

 

[Madame*Cricket]

I don't hate Pietersen, I'm just quickly losing respect for him as a person. He can go on murdering the Australian attack, I really don't mind in the least, but, while doing that, he should leave South Africans to do their own thing. England isn't heaven on earth, but if Pietersen would like to believe that, so be it.

I've been lucky, in all my seventeen years (almost) I've had the opportunity to travel a bit, experience other countries and trust me, I'd far rather be in Port Elizabeth than anywhere in England or Australia.

 

[Langeveldt]

I don't hate Pietersen, I'm just quickly losing respect for him as a person. He can go on murdering the Australian attack, I really don't mind in the least, but, while doing that, he should leave South Africans to do their own thing. England isn't heaven on earth, but if Pietersen would like to believe that, so be it.

I've been lucky, in all my seventeen years (almost) I've had the opportunity to travel a bit, experience other countries and trust me, I'd far rather be in Port Elizabeth than anywhere in England or Australia.

Word, I mean where else in the world can you go to Toby Joe's? PE doesn't need a fancy mountain either...

Pietersen must really have wanted to play test cricket to put up with England, didn't he fancy his chances of playing for Australia?

 

[Goughy]

Word, I mean where else in the world can you go to Toby Joe's? PE doesn't need a fancy mountain either...

Pietersen must really have wanted to play test cricket to put up with England, didn't he fancy his chances of playing for Australia?

Rich, you are about to leave the UK. You have no right taking about something you are leaving behind. The UK has nothing to do with you anymore. Talk about SA but not about what you are leaving behind. You disgust me

See what I mean how stupid it is for anyone to say KP cant speak about SA. When you leave the UK I never want the word Chav to pass your lips again.

 

[BingLeeElectric]

Hehe, the guy who's now gone 17 Tests without a century against class opposition...

That could mean he's scored 34 consecutive 99's which isn't too bad.