Height vs pace: which is more important for pace bowler success?

[shortpitched713]

It's not just about having endurance to maintain pace but also maintain the accuracy and precision alongside that pace. As the body gets tired, you start to over-compensate. You definitely see this with pitchers who are still bowling above 90 as they go deep into a match but begin finding the middle of the strike zone more often and giving up hits. With quick bowlers, it's often the length that goes.

I mean the whole thing was referring to an article about cricket bowling top speeds stalling out. Baseball clearly has a higher top speed because biomechanics of throwing. Endurance, accuracy, etc. is irrelevant to that sort of conversation.

Bowling and pitching are certainly different though, and have different challenges and considerations in accuracy and endurance. But those consideration just don't matter that much if we're just talking about ability to attain a flat out top speed.

 

[Coronis]

1 Bumrah 1.78

2 Marshall 1.80

3 Boult 1.8

4 Lillee 1.82

5 Akhthar 1.82

6 Wagner 1.82

7 Kapil Dev 1.83

8 Waqar 1.83

9 Hadlee 1.85

10 Lee 1.87

11 Imran 1.88

12 Holding 1.88

13 Roberts 1.88

14 Thomson 1.88

15 Botham 1.88

16 Wasim 1.88

17 Pollock 1.88

18 Anderson 1.88

19 Amir 1.88

20 Johnson 1.89

21 McDermott 1.91

22 Srinath 1.91

23 Rabada 1.91

24 Cummins 1.92

25 Hughes 1.93

26 Donald 1.93

27 Asif 1.93

28 Croft 1.96

29 McGrath 1.96

30 Tait 1.96

31 Bishop 1.96

32 Willis 1.98

33 Walsh 1.98

34 Afridi 1.98

35 Ambrose 2.01

36 Garner 2.03

37 Reid 2.03

Steyn apparently 1.79


So looking at CW’s general consensus top 5 we have:

Steyn - 179cm - fast
Marshall - 180cm - fast
Hadlee - 185cm - fast-medium
McGrath - 196cm - fast-medium
Ambrose - 201cm - fast

Not an expert on the exact paces but I don’t think it really matters.

As a fast bowler you probably want to be 175+ and probably 130+ and then its all up to you.

 

[shortpitched713]

Steyn apparently 1.79


So looking at CW’s general consensus top 5 we have:

Steyn - 179cm - fast
Marshall - 180cm - fast
Hadlee - 185cm - fast-medium
McGrath - 196cm - fast-medium
Ambrose - 201cm - fast

Not an expert on the exact paces but I don’t think it really matters.

As a fast bowler you probably want to be 175+ and probably 130+ and then its all up to you.

I think 130 kph at only 5'9" is probably not going to be adequate. Probably need a couple extra inches at that pace, or increase the pace some kphs to be at least in the mid 80s mph. But yeah, once you're at that level, it is up to your skill.

 

[reyrey]

1 Bumrah 1.78

2 Marshall 1.80

3 Boult 1.8

4 Lillee 1.82

5 Akhthar 1.82

6 Wagner 1.82

7 Kapil Dev 1.83

8 Waqar 1.83

9 Hadlee 1.85

10 Lee 1.87

11 Imran 1.88

12 Holding 1.88

13 Roberts 1.88

14 Thomson 1.88

15 Botham 1.88

16 Wasim 1.88

17 Pollock 1.88

18 Anderson 1.88

19 Amir 1.88

20 Johnson 1.89

21 McDermott 1.91

22 Srinath 1.91

23 Rabada 1.91

24 Cummins 1.92

25 Hughes 1.93

26 Donald 1.93

27 Asif 1.93

28 Croft 1.96

29 McGrath 1.96

30 Tait 1.96

31 Bishop 1.96

32 Willis 1.98

33 Walsh 1.98

34 Afridi 1.98

35 Ambrose 2.01

36 Garner 2.03

37 Reid 2.03

Holding is 1.92 Checked pics of him next to others and it seems accurate.

 

[Ali TT]

I mean the whole thing was referring to an article about cricket bowling top speeds stalling out. Baseball clearly has a higher top speed because biomechanics of throwing. Endurance, accuracy, etc. is irrelevant to that sort of conversation.

Bowling and pitching are certainly different though, and have different challenges and considerations in accuracy and endurance. But those consideration just don't matter that much if we're just talking about ability to attain a flat out top speed.

Yeah but what's the point of flat out top speed if accuracy drops off the longer you are bowling flat out?

 

[ataraxia]

@thierry henry

@thierry henry

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

"According to Wikipedia, I'm 6 ft 4 in (193 cm) but you should never trust heights that you read on the Internet." - Abraham Lincoln (back in Lincoln's day, it was more usual to capitalise the word "internet")

 

[bagapath]

Holding is 1.92 Checked pics of him next to others and it seems accurate.

thanks. corrected

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

1 Marshall 1.80 Express


2 Akhthar 1.82 Express


3 Waqar 1.83 Express


4 Lee 1.87 Express


5 Roberts 1.88 Express


6 Thomson 1.88 Express


7 Johnson 1.89 Express


8 Spofforth 1.91 Express


9 Holding 1.92 Express


10 Donald 1.93 Express


11 Croft 1.96 Express


12 Tait 1.96 Express


13 Bishop 1.96 Express


14 Starc 1.97 Express


15 Walsh 1.98 Express


16 Afridi 1.98 Express


17 Larwood 1.73 Fast


18 Ntini 1.75 Fast


19 Bumrah 1.78 Fast


20 Trueman 1.78 Fast


21 Lindwall 1.78 Fast


22 Steyn 1.79 Fast


23 Boult 1.80 Fast


24 Snow 1.80 Fast


25 Lillee 1.82 Fast


26 Davidson 1.82 Fast


27 Hadlee 1.85 Fast


28 Imran 1.88 Fast


29 Wasim 1.88 Fast


30 Amir 1.88 Fast


31 Srinath 1.91 Fast


32 Rabada 1.91 Fast


33 McDermott 1.91 Fast


34 Cummins 1.92 Fast


35 Hughes 1.93 Fast


36 Asif 1.93 Fast


37 Hall 1.96 Fast


38 Willis 1.98 Fast


39 Ambrose 2.01 Fast


40 Garner 2.03 Fast


41 Reid 2.03 Fast


42 Philander 1.75 Fast Medium


43 Vaas 1.78 Fast Medium


44 Statham 1.78 Fast Medium


45 Wagner 1.82 Fast Medium


46 Kapil Dev 1.83 Fast Medium


47 Bedser 1.83 Fast Medium


48 Mckenzie 1.83 Fast Medium


49 Botham 1.88 Fast Medium


50 Pollock 1.88 Fast Medium


51 Anderson 1.88 Fast Medium


52 Barnes 1.95 Fast Medium


53 McGrath 1.96 Fast Medium

Barnes wasn’t 1.95. Spofforth wasn’t express, Larwood was. Also Tyson.

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

1 Marshall 1.80 Express


2 Akhthar 1.82 Express


3 Waqar 1.83 Express


4 Lee 1.87 Express


5 Roberts 1.88 Express


6 Thomson 1.88 Express


7 Johnson 1.89 Express


8 Spofforth 1.91 Express


9 Holding 1.92 Express


10 Donald 1.93 Express


11 Croft 1.96 Express


12 Tait 1.96 Express


13 Bishop 1.96 Express


14 Starc 1.97 Express


15 Walsh 1.98 Express


16 Afridi 1.98 Express


17 Larwood 1.73 Fast


18 Ntini 1.75 Fast


19 Bumrah 1.78 Fast


20 Trueman 1.78 Fast


21 Lindwall 1.78 Fast


22 Steyn 1.79 Fast


23 Boult 1.80 Fast


24 Snow 1.80 Fast


25 Lillee 1.82 Fast


26 Davidson 1.82 Fast


27 Hadlee 1.85 Fast


28 Imran 1.88 Fast


29 Wasim 1.88 Fast


30 Amir 1.88 Fast


31 Srinath 1.91 Fast


32 Rabada 1.91 Fast


33 McDermott 1.91 Fast


34 Cummins 1.92 Fast


35 Hughes 1.93 Fast


36 Asif 1.93 Fast


37 Hall 1.96 Fast


38 Willis 1.98 Fast


39 Ambrose 2.01 Fast


40 Garner 2.03 Fast


41 Reid 2.03 Fast


42 Philander 1.75 Fast Medium


43 Vaas 1.78 Fast Medium


44 Statham 1.78 Fast Medium


45 Wagner 1.82 Fast Medium


46 Kapil Dev 1.83 Fast Medium


47 Bedser 1.83 Fast Medium


48 Mckenzie 1.83 Fast Medium


49 Botham 1.88 Fast Medium


50 Pollock 1.88 Fast Medium


51 Anderson 1.88 Fast Medium


52 Barnes 1.95 Fast Medium


53 McGrath 1.96 Fast Medium

So if you've got the shortest express bowler (1 on your list: Marshall) and the tallest fast-medium bowler (53 on your list: McGrath) and exactly in between these two (the median of 27: Hadlee) then you've got the three greatest pace bowlers of all time. Fascinating.

 

[bagapath]

Barnes wasn’t 1.95. Spofforth wasn’t express, Larwood was. Also Tyson.

made the changes

Express

1 Larwood 1.73 Express
2 Marshall 1.80 Express
3 Akhthar 1.82 Express
4 Waqar 1.83 Express
5 Lee 1.87 Express
6 Tyson 1.87 Express
7 Roberts 1.88 Express
8 Thomson 1.88 Express
9 Johnson 1.89 Express
10 Holding 1.92 Express
11 Donald 1.93 Express
12 Croft 1.96 Express
13 Tait 1.96 Express
14 Bishop 1.96 Express
15 Starc 1.97 Express
16 Walsh 1.98 Express
17 Afridi 1.98 Express

Fast

18 Ntini 1.75 Fast
19 Bumrah 1.78 Fast
20 Trueman 1.78 Fast
21 Lindwall 1.78 Fast
22 Steyn 1.79 Fast
23 Boult 1.80 Fast
24 Snow 1.80 Fast
25 Lillee 1.82 Fast
26 Davidson 1.82 Fast
27 Hadlee 1.85 Fast
28 Imran 1.88 Fast
29 Wasim 1.88 Fast
30 Amir 1.88 Fast
31 Spofforth 1.91 Fast
32 Srinath 1.91 Fast
33 Rabada 1.91 Fast
34 McDermott 1.91 Fast
35 Cummins 1.92 Fast
36 Hughes 1.93 Fast
37 Asif 1.93 Fast
38 Hall 1.96 Fas
39 Willis 1.98 Fast
40 Ambrose 2.01 Fast
41 Garner 2.03 Fast
42 Reid 2.03 Fast

Fast Medium

43 Philander 1.75 Fast Medium
44 Vaas 1.78 Fast Medium
45 Statham 1.78 Fast Medium
46 Wagner 1.82 Fast Medium
47 Barnes 1.82 Fast Medium
48 Kapil Dev 1.83 Fast Medium
49 Bedser 1.83 Fast Medium
50 Mckenzie 1.83 Fast Medium
51 Botham 1.88 Fast Medium
52 Pollock 1.88 Fast Medium
53 Anderson 1.88 Fast Medium
54 McGrath 1.96 Fast Medium

 

[reyrey]

Asif has never been Fast. Probably say the same for Bruce Reid.

The rest look more or less pretty accurate to me.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Asif Vaas and Philander were slower than fast medium.

 

[Stefan9]

Steyns average was around 85mph. He only cranked it 90mph rarely.

He bowled fast when he needed to and went for control when that was more important according to conditions. He figured this out much faster then most other fast bowlers.

 

[reyrey]

Asif Vaas and Philander were slower than fast medium.

Asif and Vaas did have quicker balls/bouncers in their bowling arsenal. Also McGrath was slower than Fast Medium at least on the speed gun (batsman who faced him always say he felt quicker)

No case can be made for Philander though. He is definitely slower than Fast medium.

 

[straw man]

1 Bumrah 1.78

2 Marshall 1.80

3 Boult 1.8

4 Lillee 1.82

5 Akhthar 1.82

6 Wagner 1.82

7 Kapil Dev 1.83

8 Waqar 1.83

9 Hadlee 1.85

10 Lee 1.87

11 Imran 1.88

12 Roberts 1.88

13 Thomson 1.88

14 Botham 1.88

15 Wasim 1.88

16 Pollock 1.88

17 Anderson 1.88

18 Amir 1.88

19 Johnson 1.89

20 McDermott 1.91

21 Srinath 1.91

22 Rabada 1.91

23 Holding 1.92

24 Cummins 1.92

25 Hughes 1.93

26 Donald 1.93

27 Asif 1.93

28 Croft 1.96

29 McGrath 1.96

30 Tait 1.96

31 Bishop 1.96

32 Willis 1.98

33 Walsh 1.98

34 Afridi 1.98

35 Ambrose 2.01

36 Garner 2.03

37 Reid 2.03

I have a hard time believing Wagner is 1.82 and taller than Boult - can we get an @thierry henry review please?

 

[Coronis]

tbh I have no idea who is who because I don’t watch New Zealand matches without Hadlee

I bet he lied about his height to get girls. They need that 6’ or taller

 

[Ali TT]

He bowled fast when he needed to and went for control when that was more important according to conditions. He figured this out much faster then most other fast bowlers.

Steyn often got faster as the day wore on. He'd cut his pace with the new ball to take advantage of swing and movement but by the late afternoon on a flat deck would rip it up above 90.

 

[thierry henry]

I have a hard time believing Wagner is 1.82 and taller than Boult - can we get an @thierry henry review please?

180 is the lowest I’ve ever seen Boult listed and 182 is the highest I’ve ever seen Wagner. I don’t see Wagner above 178 and I Boult might be a shade taller than 180.

 

[thierry henry]

Actually on a review of further photographic evidence Boult generally looks a good 2”/5cm taller than Wagner. Sometimes more.

I’m also skeptical of Malcolm Marshall being 5’11” but it’s surprisingly hard to find good height comparison photos of him. The photos I can find tend to show him shorter than supposedly 5’10” Viv Richards

If Marshall was really 5’11” he would’ve been basically the same height as Lillee and Thomson, so it seems odd that so much was made of him being ‘short’.