Hayden v Chanderpaul

[Johan]

It's because he averaged below 40 before the 90s, but that was a schedule quirk. Outside tests v Australia, he averaged above 40 throughout (43avg before the 90s) and averaged 48 outside the ashes at the end of his career. And at least he had a great series home&away v Australia in the 90s so it wasn't a nut he never cracked.

He also didn't have a second weak opponent, incl the best attack ever who he happened to be the toughest individual opponent for.

Yeah his ashes record was the main hole in his record, and to be fair it was a pretty major hole but he averaged like 44 anyway without his Ashes record, and once he cracked Australia he went absolutely nuts and the best in the world until the trent bridge game in 1994, definitely better than a 42.6 average, I also think overtime people started ignoring opener tax in countries like England, South Africa and New Zealand.

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah his ashes record was the main hole in his record, and to be fair it was a pretty major hole but he averaged like 44 anyway without his Ashes record, and once he cracked Australia he went absolutely nuts and the best in the world until the trent bridge game in 1994, definitely better than a 42.6 average, I also think overtime people started ignoring opener tax in countries like England, South Africa and New Zealand.

Averaged 48 without his Ashes record. Swing was his major nemesis and he was good v spin. He'd have done very well in the middle order.

 

[Johan]

Averaged 48 without his Ashes record. Swing was his major nemesis and he was good v spin. He'd have done very well in the middle order.

stump to stump swing bowling seriously did get to him, Alderman really changed the guy

 

[BazBall21]

stump to stump swing bowling seriously did get to him, Alderman really changed the guy

He had some weaknesses v swing. Overbalancing when getting his weight forward due to a lack of front foot movement which led to head position/control issues and fidgeting outside off stump. Playing around the front pad. Lacked Root's flourish.

It was noticeable how much straighter his backlift was in the 1990/91 ashes than 1989. He did a lot of research and practice after the Alderman disaster. Hundred under black skies on a minefield v the most remorseless swing bowler OAT Marshall with great support and a ton in very tough swing/seam conditions in NZ followed.

 

[BazBall21]

Chanderpaul

 

[Coronis]

Next thing you know James Anderson will be getting bumped up because he was unlucky to have a scheduling quirk against Australia.

 

[Red]

Gooch has a few holes in his record but he was excellent against both Warne and the WIs quicks

 

[Johan]

This comparison remains an insult to Hayden of the highest order, Langer vs Chanderpaul would be fairer

 

[Fanboy375]

Shiv does have a better away record than Hayden. It boils down to if you think that's exclusively down to batting positions or a combination of that and Chanderpaul being more skilled. I suspect he was a better player of lateral movement.

Hayden failed in Eng and SA but he was better in Asia than Chan.But Aus batting pitch wasn't as batting friendly than WI during 2000s

 

[BazBall21]

Hayden failed in Eng and SA but he was better in Asia than Chan.But Aus batting pitch wasn't as batting friendly than WI during 2000s

Definitely a bigger gap between them in England than in Asia on paper. It's whether you think that's mostly down to batting position or down to skill.

 

[Coronis]

Hayden failed in Eng and SA but he was better in Asia than Chan.But Aus batting pitch wasn't as batting friendly than WI during 2000s

What

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah I'd say Australia was even better than WI for batting then but those slow WI pitches were perfect for Shiv