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Hayden calls Harbhajan an obnoxious weed

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
and I am yet to see the Indians who were there support the claim that it was thousands...
I am yet to see an Indian to say that as well. Nor does it matter if an Indian said it. An Australian could say it too.

Heck, you could be sitting on one side of the stadium and me on the other and where you have 20 idiots chanting monkey sounds I could have everybody around me doing it. Who do you believe? Maybe both, and why not?

But I do believe what the show-host said and it makes sense when you figure Symonds heard it whilst batting and his teammates also did.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
LOL, good one HB. almost took you seriously.



Yeah, like if you offend someone's family members or make some other remark on that degree, I agree. But that's not what happened.
Indeed... I am not saying it happened here.. But when it does happen, they have to be treated the same way.


If you're telling me a '**** You' is worse than the 'N-Word' then we really are on different planets and there is no point discussing this because our value-systems are totally different.
Never said that.



But I am not talking about Brad Hogg, I am talking about Hayden and Harbhajan.

Hayden calling him an obnoxious weed is a personal insult, well higher up that ladder than '**** you'... And I brought up Brad Hogg because he is an Australian player as well and the example shows that the players can and do transgress whatever "policy" they have on sledging, if one does indeed exist.



I agree, bastard is just as bad. It is used very frequently and almost without offense here but I know it is a very offensive word elsewhere.

And I posted a magazine article a while ago where Chappell and I think Marsh said insults like that were verboten.

Glad we agree on that. :)



If I were Lee I would have told Symonds that as soon as the confrontation occurred. I don't see why that's not ever mentioned, but nevermind.
That is juz an internal issue of the Australian team though... At the end of the day, it won't stand up in the court.


That wasn't my point, though. My point was if Symonds was looking from afar and saw that then it doesn't matter who thought what, just what Symonds thought was enough to motivate him to go start on Harbhajan.

Symonds may get motivated by the most trivial of stuff too. At the end of the day, the judge has to feel that whatever motivated him was something understandable, at the very least... But these are juz speculations as what happened in the hearing was totally different.



Not it wouldn't have because Symonds didn't act on Lee's word. He would have acted on his own. So whether Lee thought it was harmless or not is irrelevant. It's Symonds' understanding when approaching Harbhajan that will make him either the defensive party, or the provoker. We know now he did his fair share to provocate. But had he actually argued that he thought, after all that happened recently, it wasn't a friendly gesture and went over to Harbhajan to defend Lee, then you couldn't really see him as a provoker, he didn't have the intent.

Some luck you will need to prove that provocation was justified... When the men involved themselves didn't think it was anything bad and there was no real visible reaction from either man to suggest that, on what basis did Symonds come to the conclusion that Harby meant any harm? Could it be the fact that he doesn't like him and was just waiting for an opportunity to have a go at him? Any good lawyer would tear that defense to pieces.... And he WAS juz jumping at a chance to have a go, it was obvious.


And yes, I DID see the crowd. There were videos of the match all over YouTube. I also sourced an article on an Aussie who was making a show for Fox 8 about it and he said there were thousands. Symonds was batting at the time of hearing it and his teammates DID hear it too. 20 people? Get real.

Thousands shouting monkey??? Try getting real yourself. It was one section of one stand and at best, would have been a couple of hundreds of guys... And in my time of watching cricket, orchestrated booing almost always never succeeds in India simply because of the huge numbers involved.. Most of the time one guy s saying one thing and the other is saying something else.. Heck, most of us don't even have a common language. I watched the match as well and in you tube and it is not thousands... It was only around 20 people who were found guilty of mimicking "monkey actions".. And in Mumbai, the numbers were much much lesser. Anyways, will check out stuff on you tube over the weekend and then get back to you.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I am yet to see an Indian to say that as well. Nor does it matter if an Indian said it. An Australian could say it too.

Heck, you could be sitting on one side of the stadium and me on the other and where you have 20 idiots chanting monkey sounds I could have everybody around me doing it. Who do you believe? Maybe both, and why not?

But I do believe what the show-host said and it makes sense when you figure Symonds heard it whilst batting and his teammates also did.
it only takes a few to be heard though... It juz depends on how vocal you are and where your stand is etc.


anyways, I cannot claim to have first hand information on this but I don't think it was that many... We ll leave it at that. No point in arguing in circles.
 

R_D

International Debutant
Well, I was kidding, but I hope it is not that bad.
I was quite serious that i hope Symmonds has some sense not do more trash talking in front of media.
You've seen some people burn stadiums, paint Kaif's house etc etc... so people get over emotional about cricket and some do take it too far. I'm not saying it'll happen for sure but there is slight possibly some nutcase could try to hurt symmonds.
 

sirdj

State Vice-Captain
An Indian witness who wasn't there compared to an Aussie witness who was there. Call me crazy, but I don't think it matters where you're from because the real distinction that separates them is their presence when it occured.
I was in Bombay when the match happened. Saw it live on TV. The whole thing was over in 5 minutes(of making complaint).........said idiots were in the police van and taken to the police station.......Rest of the crowd continued booing at Symonds whenever he would field near the stands till the end of the match but no more monkey business. As pandu havaldars were parading the area. So Kaz enough from you regarding thousands and thousands.
 
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Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Brits introduced the rule of law in India long before they brought in cricket. But when it comes to dealing with violations of the famed ‘spirit’ of cricket, Indian authorities have somehow made a virtue of not invoking the rule of law embodied in the ICC code of conduct.

Despite the succession of gratuitous provocations from Aussies in the course of the ongoing series, Indian cricket administrators and players seem to prefer whining and playing martyrs to the cause of "gentleman's game" than seeking legal remedies available to them within the ICC framework.

Their reluctance to take recourse to the law is all the more mysterious and self-defeating given the frequency with which their opponents or umpires have thrown the book at them and built a record of breaches over the years that suggests (however undeservedly) that Indians are about the worst behaved cricketers in the world.

BCCI and team management could not get over their inhibition to lodge a complaint under the ICC code even when Matthew Hayden, in the latest instance of offence caused by Aussies, called Harbhajan Singh an "obnoxious little weed." They chose to forego the legal remedy although Hayden's verbal abuse in a radio interview very much constituted Level 1.7 offence of the ICC code, which penalizes "public criticism of, or inappropriate comment on a match-related incident."

India's failure to move ICC gave scope for Cricket Australia to conduct an internal inquiry and, after going through the motions of a three-hour hearing, let Hayden off with nothing more than a reprimand. Given the lack of pressure from India, CA did not even deem it fit to make Hayden express an apology to Harbhajan for using such offensive language.

The gravity of India's omission is evident from the fact that just before the Hayden episode, ICC had penalized Ishant Sharma by fining him 15% of his match fee for pointing Andrew Symonds towards the pavilion after bowling him. The action followed despite a finding from ICC match referee Jeff Crowe that the 19-year-old bowler might have been "provoked" by Symonds.

Had it been pro-active, India could have used that very incident to turn the tables on Aussies and exposed Symonds for what he was - a repeat offender. But since India did not lodge a complaint against Symonds for abusing Sharma in the first place, all that Crowe could do with his finding against Symonds was to cite it as a mitigating circumstance for imposing a lesser penalty on Sharma.

In his order, Crowe reiterated ICC's policy that "a zero tolerance attitude will be shown to abusive or insulting language and actions." What he left unsaid was that, in the absence of a complaint from India, Symonds' "action" was glossed over while Sharma's "reaction" was subjected to that zero tolerance attitude.

The one occasion on which India did lodge a complaint in the infamous Sydney Test, it promptly dropped the charge against Brad Hogg in an apparent attempt to put moral pressure on Australia to make a reciprocal gesture in the earlier case against Harbhajan Singh.

Incidentally, even in that racial abuse case, ICC appeals commissioner John Hansen held that Harbhajan's offence was in reaction to the aggressive manner in which Symonds objected to his friendly overture to Brett Lee. No lesson seems to have been learnt from that experience as India continues to be at the receiving end because of its peculiar attitude that invocation of the ICC Code would run contrary to the spirit of cricket.

The unstated policy of keeping away from legal remedies has been taken so far that after Sharma's indictment, the only counter that captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni could think of was to learn the "art" of sledging. It's as if India would do anything, even take to sledging, to avoid taking recourse to law.
 

sirdj

State Vice-Captain
Heck, you could be sitting on one side of the stadium and me on the other and where you have 20 idiots chanting monkey sounds I could have everybody around me doing it. Who do you believe? Maybe both, and why not?
There are such things as cameras.......about 20 odd of them around the ground and between all of them they only came up with one stand. The recording was used as evidence when said idiots were warned at the police station(police never dealt with racism before and could not comprehend how monkey was racist to book any serious charges).

But I do believe what the show-host said and it makes sense when you figure Symonds heard it whilst batting and his teammates also did.
Which great show-host??
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Damn yo 33 pages, such things seem to get more attention on CW these than actual cricket chat.

Don't want to work up anyone, but personally i'm not surprised to see Hayden say this because since that 2001 series everytime Australia & India have clashed in either test or ODI's Harbhajan always got something to say to somebody. Always felt it was his way of pumping himself up when playing the best in the world but probably there has been more to it over the years..
Harbhajan did his image wonders on the TV show NZ Border Security.
 

MoxPearl

State Vice-Captain
seems everyone needs to harden the hell up if there is this much drama over calling someone a obnoxious weed....
 

jeevan

International 12th Man
Always been a fan of Haydens "No nonsense and play the game" Attitude.
seems everyone needs to harden the hell up if there is this much drama over calling someone a obnoxious weed....
Hayden's been quite the drama queen in this series himself, fairly major contributor to all this nonsense.

- Harbhajan muttered something, big guy imagined it to be "monkey" and we had the Sydney fiasco based on his testimony as well, which took a real judge to toss out.
- going on some pinhead radioshow is cricket??
- if he's so dead set against racism, why mock Ishant's accent?

Hayden should shut up and just play the game, himself.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I was in Bombay when the match happened. Saw it live on TV. The whole thing was over in 5 minutes(of making complaint).........said idiots were in the police van and taken to the police station.......Rest of the crowd continued booing at Symonds whenever he would field near the stands till the end of the match but no more monkey business. As pandu havaldars were parading the area. So Kaz enough from you regarding thousands and thousands.
So an Indian who saw it on TV compared to an Aussie in the stadium. You keep digging.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
There are such things as cameras.......about 20 odd of them around the ground and between all of them they only came up with one stand. The recording was used as evidence when said idiots were warned at the police station(police never dealt with racism before and could not comprehend how monkey was racist to book any serious charges).
You see, the camera lens shows only so much. How are you going to capture people calling Symonds a monkey if it is zoomed far away enough for you to clearly see thousands. This is ridiculous. We are talking about a player who, in a large stadium, heard the chants loud enough in the center of the pitch. You're saying only 20 people caused that ruckus? :laugh:


Which great show-host??
So you didn't read the article I sourced? The guy was the host of the show "An Aussie goes Bolly". He traveled to India to follow the tour in India (much like his other show "An Aussie goes Barmy". He witnessed the 'thousands'. But somehow you like to keep repeating you only saw 20 or so on TV.
 

sirdj

State Vice-Captain
So an Indian who saw it on TV compared to an Aussie in the stadium. You keep digging.
Kaz.........you go ahead and believe whatever you want.........if you want to believe an idiot journo who wants to sensationalize the issue then please go ahead by all mean........makes no difference to me. No point discussing with you
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Kaz.........you go ahead and believe whatever you want.........if you want to believe an idiot journo who wants to sensationalize the issue then please go ahead by all mean........makes no difference to me. No point discussing with you
:laugh: Whatever you say.
 

irfan

State Captain
KaZo leading a one man band versus the rest (HB, jeevan, ret etc.) one feels. A Richard-esque 50 posts in the last couple of days in this thread alone.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Having lived in QLD for years and heard him on the same joke radio station for ever, bottom line is ...... who cares?

We are talking about a great cricketer with zero personality telling the truth about Harby (a guy who has ZERO respect in the cricketing community) and the latter being backed up by their Mummy whilst they invite all and sundry to dinner

I am so sick of this tour it's not funny
 
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jeevan

International 12th Man
Having lived in QLD for years and heard him on the same joke radio station for ever, bottom line is ...... who cares?

We are talking about a great cricketer with zero personality telling the truth about Harby (a guy who has ZERO respect in the cricketing community) and the latter being backed up by their Mummy whilst they invite all and sundry to dinner

I am so sick of this tour it's not funny
There is no particular "truth" involved in hurling random insults at people you cant get along with. Especially people who are here on your invitation.
 

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