Have South Africa taken a big step in removing the CHOKERS tag

[Jono]

Yes it was a great game, no one is saying it wasn't.

But the choke for SA happened in the last over. Not before that. Got nothing to do with Warne.

 

[honestbharani]

New Zealand v South Africa, World Cup 2011: South Africa need to face their reality | Cricket Features | ICC Cricket World Cup 2011 | ESPN Cricinfo

What will be important is that they accept the reality of it, that they see it for what it was - a faltering when things became too difficult - and not sugarcoat it as anything else. If South Africa are able to confront the mental aspect of the game head on, and not hide behind gimmicks, there's every chance the wounds can heal fast. The danger will arise if they don't, and if they allow the chokers' tag to be hung around their necks, while silently trying to shrug it off and publicly pretending it's not there. Then, it will become a noose again.

Denial helps nothing.

The guy made good points but he is stupid if he thinks RSA were in control of their chase against India in the group game.. **** me, but 14 off the last over, I would back the bowling side 9 times out of 10...

 

[smash84]

Yes it was a great game, no one is saying it wasn't.

But the choke for SA happened in the last over. Not before that. Got nothing to do with Warne.

awta

 

[honestbharani]

They were cruising at one stage before Warne ripped through their top order and the only reason Saffers came that close in the end was due to some late-order brilliance from Klusner.

The fact of the matter is that, that was and still remains for me the best game of one day cricket I've ever seen, simply because the balance of the scales kept shifting right through the 100 overs.

All that is true but Warne is NOT the reason they tied the game.. If you are at it, I would say Pollock bowled even better than Warne in that game... In the end, it didn't matter. They tied the game coz they choked, else they would have won. Simple as.

 

[Furball]

I hope people are not ticking this game as some classic case of choking, the fact of the matter is that South Africa in the history of their cricket have only choked once and that was during the famous 99 worldcup semi-final, on other ocassions they have either been screwed by the weather, destiny or good cricket played by their opposition.

In a game where a team scores 220 odd and then wins by 50 runs clearly suggests that they pretty much walked all over their opponents so to bring out this whole choker thing for this game doesn't make sense.

New Zealand had an attack that suited that wicket very well and once the ball got old and soft South Africa just struggled, I also said this prior to the tournament that South Africa are pretty light on batting in their middle to lower middle order and that proved to be their achilles heel in both games they lost.

World Cup 2007 semi was an enormous choke.

Australia turned the heat up pre-match, and South Africa's response to the pressure was for the top order to a man throwing their wickets away.

 

[Prad100w]

Have South Africa taken a big step in removing the CHOKERS tag?

Yes, they have. Evident from the QF result.

 

[Jono]

World Cup 2007 semi was an enormous choke.

Australia turned the heat up pre-match, and South Africa's response to the pressure was for the top order to a man throwing their wickets away.

Yep definitely. Earlier in the thread I linked to the articles where Hayden and Ponting played some of the greatest pre-match mind games I have ever seen.

 

[BeeGee]

lol.. I don't subscribe entirely to that thought either. I juz meant that is what these guys generally mean by the C word. And quite honestly, I do think RSA are more prone to letting the situation get the better of their nerves than the other teams...

From the BeeGee concise cricketing dictionary:

Choke: To snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. To spectacularly fail from a position of strength, when appearing to be cruising to victory.
For more information see the entry: South Africa.

 

[honestbharani]

Have South Africa taken a big step in removing the CHOKERS tag?

Yes, they have. Evident from the QF result.

yeah. they have removed that tag.. They have removed that word itself.. Chokers should be replaced by the South African Cricket Team in dictionaries henceforth..

 

[Jono]

Lol.

There are two types of chokes though.

One like yesterday, where they were in a dominant position and just threw it away when the finish line was reasonably close.

The other was like the 07 World Cup. SA losing to Australia in the final was not surprising. Australia were favourites heading into the match. But the manner in which they wilted under the pressure of a semi was a choke.

And for people who say "why don't you credit the opposition instead of calling it a choke", they aren't mutually exclusive. Very rarely a team will choke and lose despite the opposition playing ****. The opposition plays well to TAKE ADVANTAGE of the choke. NZ did that brilliantly. They were awesome in the field, they played on the SA fragility by sledging the **** out of them, and they went for the kill when they got on top.

Kiwis were excellent.

 

[Furball]

Yep definitely. Earlier in the thread I linked to the articles where Hayden and Ponting played some of the greatest pre-match mind games I have ever seen.

And Smith's dismissal is one of the greatest examples of letting pressure get to you and affecting your performance I've ever seen. He danced down the wicket and tried to thump McGrath out the ground for God's sake. IIRC Kallis decided to play aggressively as a response to the stick he got after his innings in the pool stage and threw his wicket away equally stupidly.

Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in the Aussie dressing room at the interval. I don't think they expected South Africa to hand the game on a plate that easily.

 

[Jono]

Smith's was ludicrous but I found Kallis' worse because the previous ball he had played a glorious shot through the covers for 4. Then he tried charging and McGrath took out his off stump.

Crazy stuff.

 

[vcs]

Strangely forgotten tour that. Should have been one for ages in terms of a high-water mark, but bizarrely never talked about.

ICC plot, tbh.

Nah, seriously in retrospect was it the highwater mark of the great Australian teams? Continued to be great for another couple of years afterwards, but were maybe on the downhill slope slightly.

Gradient has increased exponentially last coupla years, obvz.

I haven't forgotten it. I have a lot of for Martyn and Clarke's knocks on that tour, and Gillespie was amazing as well. Beating SL 3-0 and India in India was an awesome effort, but I still think about what could have happened if the fifth day in Chennai hadn't been rained out..

Um you are aware that South Africa beat India in India in 2000 : 2-0 right? Talk about a forgotten series.

Yep, SA trounced us in that series.

Yeah precisely. If they'd been knocked out narrowly vs India or SL having fought til the end, the choking tag would be much less justified despite their pitiful knockout record (0% success rate in WCs). But instead they committed high-grade self-immolation against a team that was not exactly working magic, and by common consent. Exceptionally disciplined, committed, hungry and with immense self-belief but those shouldn't have, in the end, made a difference to the result, given the quality of SA's batting lineup. But they just ****ed themselves immensely by playing deadset moronic cricket. NZ deserved the win because exploiting an opponent's weaknesses is a crucial and highly commendable skill, but that doesn't mean the weaknesses aren't there, and they aren't glaring.

With the 07 match... I wonder how much of it was the fear that if they didn't get a gigantic score it wouldn't be safe, having been absolutely murdered by Aus top order earlier on...

Agree totally.

The guy made good points but he is stupid if he thinks RSA were in control of their chase against India in the group game.. **** me, but 14 off the last over, I would back the bowling side 9 times out of 10...

Yeah, I found that part a bit strange as well.

 

[Kylez]

This reminds me of something, has ORION been sighted since SA's loss to New Zealand?

 

[jot1]

This reminds me of something, has ORION been sighted since SA's loss to New Zealand?

No, we're still sitting at the airport waiting for our captain to come home.

 

[Jono]

This reminds me of something, has ORION been sighted since SA's loss to New Zealand?

Said immediately after the match that we'll never see him on CW again. Sticking to that.

Definition of fairweather fan.

 

[vcs]

Would like to see that taipan1 bloke after his predictions about the SA-India Test series. Disappeared around the 2nd day of the Durban Test IIRC.

Wouldn't put 0RI0N quite in the same class as him. Atleast he tries (and fails) to be funny.

 

[Teja.]

You guys are being too harsh on Orion. Good bloke IMO. Was pretty gracious after the SA tour too IIRC.

 

[vcs]

You guys are being too harsh on Orion. Good bloke IMO. Was pretty gracious after the SA tour too IIRC.

Yeah, AWTA. If he leaves the forum when his team loses, who can blame him? Doesn't mean he didn't watch the match, just doesn't want to see pages upon pages of laughing at SA and calling them chokers.

 

[vcs]

Aakash Chopra: The difference between choking and panicking | Specials | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

This comment from Jeegar Pandya really cracked me up:

Well done Akash!!! I think you have managed to split the hair right down the middle.