Harry Brook vs Viv Richards

[DrWolverine]

English ATG batters are Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hammond, Hutton, you can make an argument for May, Barrington and then Root.

English ATG bowlers would be uhhh hmm Barnes, then Laker (among spinners), Trueman and then Anderson.

Barrington is an all time great. No debate there.

 

[Johan]

Barrington is an all time great. No debate there.

I mean Yeah, I have Barrington there, I don't rate him as highly as most but it'd be silly to say he is not an ATG on the basis of raw output

 

[Johan]

****, god knows how much I want Hutton>Hobbs, wish it was possible

 

[kyear2]

Was it actually proved?

One of the reason I have Akram/Waqar lower than other fast bowling legends is because I don’t trust them 100%

They tampered. It was passed down to them, it was admitted to that it was passed down to them.

Read an article a long time ago, basically saying one can't blame them though. Basically if your mentor has passed something down to you, how bad can it be?

In any event

 

[kyear2]

England ATGs : Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hammond, Barrington, Compton, Trueman,

England ATGs in last 50 years : Boycott & Root.
That’s it.

Would call either ATG

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Don't you take other forums and platforms into account? Shoaib is def overrated on some by the pace is pace yaar crowd.

Would you say Anderson is at the same level as Wasim?

 

[Johan]

Boycott isn't ATG, Root definitely is tho imo if you consider people like Dravid and Sangakkara ATG.

 

[Johan]

Would you say Anderson is at the same level as Wasim?

Nah

 

[kyear2]

I (weirdly) restrained myself from posting this comparison earlier today, I didn't realise there was already a thread.

I imagine that watching Brook now might be like watching Viv back in the day - 40 years down the track old timers are waxing lyrical about how "this extraordinary talent changed the game" but actually if you watched at the time you'd know it was just some **** slogging

Same on the bolded bit.

But not the second. You can watch over Viv's knocks from the 70's. Yeah, some of the dismissals were clunky, bit he had a better technique and seemed to be more in control.

 

[Johan]

Would you say Anderson is at the same level as Wasim?

among ATG pacers

Tier 1 — Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Ambrose

Tier 2 — Donald, Lillee, Wasim, Trueman, Garner and kind

Tier 3 — Anderson, Pollock, Walsh, Cummins

Borderline — Roberts, Waqar, Bedser

 

[kyear2]

****, god knows how much I want Hutton>Hobbs, wish it was possible

Isn't he?

 

[kyear2]

Boycott isn't ATG, Root definitely is tho imo if you consider people like Dravid and Sangakkara ATG.

All borderline to me.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

among ATG pacers

Tier 1 — Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Ambrose

Tier 2 — Donald, Lillee, Wasim, Trueman, Garner and kind

Tier 3 — Anderson, Pollock, Walsh, Cummins

Borderline — Roberts, Waqar, Bedser

Fair enough. I mostly agree. I just rate Waqar and Cummins a lot higher than you.

I’d say the the first two tiers are bonafide ATGs. Tier 3 is borderline and depends on one’s definition.

 

[kyear2]

among ATG pacers

Tier 1 — Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Ambrose

Tier 2 — Donald, Lillee, Wasim, Trueman, Garner and kind

Tier 3 — Anderson, Pollock, Walsh, Cummins

Borderline — Roberts, Waqar, Bedser

Yeah, the tier two is a bit crowded.

Imran, Donald, Lillee, Wasim, Lindwall, Garner, Holding, Davidson, Trueman, may have missed one or two.

 

[Johan]

Isn't he?

don't think so, Hobbs was insane in his prime

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[Coronis]

Everyone was tampering, please don’t act like it was only Pakistan.

 

[Johan]

Fair enough. I mostly agree. I just rate Waqar and Cummins a lot higher than you.

I also don't really count Anderson's pre 2010 record, injuries had ****ed his action, once he returned to his older one he was gun for 12-13 years and over hundreds of matches

 

[Coronis]

don't think so, Hobbs was insane in his prime

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Maintained a 60 average over 21 years and 55 matches.

 

[Johan]

Maintained a 60 average over 21 years and 55 matches.

He was arguably the best in the world after regressing post-war and had the biggest domination of contemporaries I've seen bar Bradman, #2 for me.

 

[DrWolverine]

among ATG pacers

Tier 1 — Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Ambrose

Tier 2 — Donald, Lillee, Wasim, Trueman, Garner and kind

Tier 3 — Anderson, Pollock, Walsh, Cummins

Borderline — Roberts, Waqar, Bedser

Since you have Cummins
Where do you place Bumrah & Rabada?