Coronis
International Coach
Well I mean look at that field.. a guy like Brett Lee could’ve been the GOAT bowling to that
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Harold Larwood VS Jacques Kallis
- Thread starter Cricket Bliss
- Start date
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Don't know about that. He was fairly young and did quite well post Test retirement as well. He played only 23 Tests outside that Ashes to begin with.... Can't think of many pacers having a better record than him mid Wars.
Coronis
International Coach
He would’ve been 30 by the next Ashes tour, not exactly young for an express bowler, especially in that era.
He only played 5 tests inside that series, much smaller sample size, why can’t I use his stats outside of it as an argument?
His record isn’t clearly superior to the others - really its similar at best. Notable examples with clearly better records between the wars:
Bill Voce (bodyline partner) 97 @ 26.04, 41 @ 23.58 vs Australia
Bill Bowes 67 @ 21.58, 30 @ 24.70 vs Australia
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
When did I said you can't use his performance except outside that Ashes as an argument? The ones in favour of him are just these: he played in an era pretty tough for pacers and respect to that his pre bodyline record is quite alright, would had continued to play a decent more years, didn't play many Test matches and had an ATG series and has an exceptional FC record. Add to that his express pace and reputation; and a sense of wrongdoing from the selectors.
Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Vice-Captain
Larwood is more iconic but Kallis the better cricketer.
Coronis
International Coach
16 matches 45 wickets @ 34.84 is quite alright?
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
By era; not too bad. Jack Gregory and Ted McDonald, Australia's two best mid War pacers both averaged 33+
shortpitched713
International Captain
I've seen some clips where Larwoods action looked kind of dodgy.
Therefore Kallis gets the edge, for mine.
YES THIS POST IS SOMEWHAT IN JEST
Therefore Kallis gets the edge, for mine.
YES THIS POST IS SOMEWHAT IN JEST
He was outbowled by a guy nearly 24 years older than him in a first-class match only a few years after bodyline so there's that.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Well, that guy was Sydney Barnes....
Frank Tarrant actually.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
My smart ass......
. Though I don't think being out performed by a left arm spinner in a single match changes much in here.https://i.imgci.com/link_to_databas...AD/EURO-IND_HINDUS_BOM-QUAD_26-29DEC1936.html
Here's the link. Note that 56 year old Tarrant was also Europeans best batsman during that game. The opposition weren't exactly hacks either. Tarrant, who produced the bulk of his outstanding first-class record for Middlesex before WW1 actually also played a major role in the development of Indian cricket in the inter-war period. Highlights include umpiring in the 1933-34 series against England and being responsible for the laying of the turf at the iconic Brabourne. That he could still produce a good all-round performance like that at the age he did is a testament to just how good a cricketer he really was. Not bad for an Aussie.
I'd definitely have him on my shortlist of greatest players of the Test era never to have played Test cricket.
Here's the link. Note that 56 year old Tarrant was also Europeans best batsman during that game. The opposition weren't exactly hacks either. Tarrant, who produced the bulk of his outstanding first-class record for Middlesex before WW1 actually also played a major role in the development of Indian cricket in the inter-war period. Highlights include umpiring in the 1933-34 series against England and being responsible for the laying of the turf at the iconic Brabourne. That he could still produce a good all-round performance like that at the age he did is a testament to just how good a cricketer he really was. Not bad for an Aussie.
I'd definitely have him on my shortlist of greatest players of the Test era never to have played Test cricket.
a massive zebra
International Captain
Yep, Bradman's stats were really restricted by two bowlers he played 0 Tests against.
a massive zebra
International Captain
Since when did anyone claim Larwood to be the best fast bowler ever (except possibly aesthetically)?
Coronis
International Coach
I mean if he played against NZ he might’ve reached that magic 100. So I guess its true.
Coronis
International Coach
I think if you’re trying to compare a bowler with Kallis he’d need to be in the conversation for greatest pace/spin bowler of all time to have a shot. (presuming they’re not an allrounder themselves)
a massive zebra
International Captain
Except Harbhajan didn't have to bowl to Bradman. Larwood's stats excluding bodyline are underwhelming but it is tough bowling to the best batsman ever.
a massive zebra
International Captain
Yeah Maurice Tate was the only inter-war pacer with a significantly better Test record, but unlike Larwood he was far from rapid. Bill Bowes had a much better average, but he only played 14 Tests and again was far from Larwood's pace.
At the start of WWII, I think the common consensus was that Tate, Gregory, McDonald, Larwood and Amar Singh were the best pace bowlers of the inter-war period. Gregory, McDonald and Singh all have worse Test bowling records than Larwood.
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