Harbhajan Singh's action reported

[Richard]

No, that would be a bit stupid. How can someone say that because two people have been found to exceed the limit with it everyone that ever tries it will? These two bowlers already had questions about their action beforehand so how is it any surprise, or the balls fault?

Except Saqlain's never been tested, so he can't have been found to exceed the limit.
The only people who have been found to exceed the limit are Harbhajan and Murali, who bowl totally different deliveries which they call by the same name.
Too many people make the mistake of thinking the Saqlain\Harbhajan ball is the same as the Murali one.

 

[Tom Halsey]

TBH, I'm not surprised. His action has looked suspect to me for a while.

 

[marc71178]

lol my problem is that lots of people brand Murali a cheat even though he's been cleared before,

Yes, but he'd been cleared of his stock ball.

 

[marc71178]

Wonder if anyone's going to start questioning Saqlain's action.
Probably not, given that he's not currently in the public light.

IIRC then since he's not playing Internationally there's nothing that the ICC can do?

 

[marc71178]

That would be kinda hard to do cause people do like to use that ball and it would make a lot of people upset if they did that.

Yes, but if it's a ball that can only be delivered with an illegal action (as is being suggested by the only bowlers who use it being reported) - how can you not ban it, just because people like to use it?!

 

[marc71178]

15 degrees has been suggested by leading biomechanics since 2001 or 2002. To say the law has been changed for one man is just wrong.

I believe that they've said something along the lines of 15 degrees being about the limit where the naked eye can detect it?

 

[Son Of Coco]

My point was that they bowl it in exactly the same way - so people are bound to start saying Saqlain must be bowling it illegally too.
Well, except of course for the fact that no-one gives a flying f**k about a bowler who's not hurting their team ATM.

Well I guess most people bowl it in a similar way, but is it exactly the same? Down to the last movement? The report was made by two umpires and a match referee I don't see how they have a team to protect!?

 

[Son Of Coco]

Except Saqlain's never been tested, so he can't have been found to exceed the limit.
The only people who have been found to exceed the limit are Harbhajan and Murali, who bowl totally different deliveries which they call by the same name.
Too many people make the mistake of thinking the Saqlain\Harbhajan ball is the same as the Murali one.

Has he ever had his action questioned though? As far as I can tell he's been dragged into it because he bowls a ball by the same name.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yes, but if it's a ball that can only be delivered with an illegal action (as is being suggested by the only bowlers who use it being reported) - how can you not ban it, just because people like to use it?!

Because you can't use guesswork to determine how a bowler might bowl it in the future based on two bowlers who had their normal actions questioned before they started bowling the doosra. If I got caught speeding would it be fair to ban everyone from driving on the presumption that it was impossible to do so without exceeding the limit? You have to judge each case on its merits not come up with a uniform law for everyone, as we've seen the last few years a bowling action is a very individual thing.

 

[Richard]

IIRC then since he's not playing Internationally there's nothing that the ICC can do?

I wasn't talking about ICC, I was meaning the general my-eyes-are-better-than-science public.

 

[Richard]

Well I guess most people bowl it in a similar way, but is it exactly the same? Down to the last movement?

Presumably not (possibly, of course) but most people bowl most deliveries in pretty similar ways.
There's not much difference (for instance) between the way Warne and Salisbury bowl the Leg-Break or the Googly.

The report was made by two umpires and a match referee I don't see how they have a team to protect!?

Again, I wasn't referring to Umpires and Referee, I was referring to the general public.

 

[marc71178]

I wasn't talking about ICC, I was meaning the general my-eyes-are-better-than-science public.

So how exactly are the general public going to see him if he's not playing?

 

[Son Of Coco]

Presumably not (possibly, of course) but most people bowl most deliveries in pretty similar ways.
There's not much difference (for instance) between the way Warne and Salisbury bowl the Leg-Break or the Googly.

Again, I wasn't referring to Umpires and Referee, I was referring to the general public.

That may be true, but it's also practically impossible to throw legspin. I'd suggest there may be wider scope for differences in other disciplines (although I guess Paul Adams would beg to differ haha).

 

[Richard]

Has he ever had his action questioned though? As far as I can tell he's been dragged into it because he bowls a ball by the same name.

I'm the only one who's dragging him into it is me.
And I'm saying that if Harbhajan bowls it with a certain degree of flexion, Saqlain bowls it better if he bowls it with less.
Certainly I don't see that it's impossible to bowl any delivery without flexing the elbow, whatever anyone might think.

 

[Richard]

So how exactly are the general public going to see him if he's not playing?

That's just the point. Jesus.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I'm trying to get my head round the biomechanics of the doosra at the moment - I've never seen it bowled close up. I'm guessing it's basically off-spin bowled from a googly's wrist position?

 

[Richard]

That may be true, but it's also practically impossible to throw legspin. I'd suggest there may be wider scope for differences in other disciplines (although I guess Paul Adams would beg to differ haha).

It's totally possible to throw anything.
It may be harder to do it without realising, yes.
I wasn't just referring to throwing - I was referring to the fact that most deliveries are bowled the same by most bowlers.

 

[Richard]

I'm trying to get my head round the biomechanics of the doosra at the moment - I've never seen it bowled close up. I'm guessing it's basically off-spin bowled from a googly's wrist position?

I don't think many people really understand it.
Certainly I don't think it's really like a Googly - a Googly is a wristspinner's ball, a Doosra the way Saqlain and Harbhajan bowl it is a fingerspinner's.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Either way, the biomechanics behind the googly is that the back of the hand points in the opposite direction to the stock leg break, so the turn is the opposite direction. I'm assuming that's pretty much the only way that an offie can disguise a doosra.

 

[Son Of Coco]

It's totally possible to throw anything.
It may be harder to do it without realising, yes.
I wasn't just referring to throwing - I was referring to the fact that most deliveries are bowled the same by most bowlers.

I know what you were referring to, but if they were bowled the same they'd have the same result wouldn't they? It is possible to throw anything yes, but I think it'd be very difficult to master throwing leggies with anywhere hear the same degree of proficiency as you can with offies.