Hammond vs Kallis

[DrWolverine]

I rate Kallis quite highly (as a top 10 cricketer)

The only great batting allrounder in the last 50 years and his raw numbers are simply extraordinary.

 

[sayon basak]

The only great batting allrounder in the last 50 years and his raw numbers are simply extraordinary.

Yeah, and batted in the same era with Sachin and cane up with same (if not better) stats.

I rate Hammond and Kallis as top 10 and top 17 Batter respectively. So, obviously Hammond is the better batter but I think the gap is smaller than their bowling gap. And both were great fielders too.

 

[Johan]

Hammond's batting solos tbh

 

[subshakerz]

Kallis' bowling is overrated.

 

[kyear2]

Yeah, and batted in the same era with Sachin and cane up with same (if not better) stats.

I rate Hammond and Kallis as top 10 and top 17 Batter respectively. So, obviously Hammond is the better batter but I think the gap is smaller than their bowling gap. And both were great fielders too.

This is where I can't grasp how we rate all rounders.

How is your no. 17 batsman a top 10 player?

I do not understand that.

In any event I think I do have Hammond rated ever so slightly higher.

A top 12 batsman, superb slip and just did enough as a bowler.

Kallis did have the advantage that he bowled more and fielded at the more important position, but to be fair, 1st was seen as being more important when Hammond played.

Really close though.

 

[kyear2]

Kallis' bowling is overrated.

It's not though.

What would you prefer, a Sobers situation where you run down your best batsman?

Your primary skill is more important and it's not like when he wasn't bowling he was hiding at fine leg, he was excelling at the most important and difficult position on the field.

I think he was managed perfectly. It prioritized his batting and helped to extend his career.

 

[subshakerz]

It's not though.

What would you prefer, a Sobers situation where you run down your best batsman?

Your primary skill is more important and it's not like when he wasn't bowling he was hiding at fine leg, he was excelling at the most important and difficult position on the field.

I think he was managed perfectly. It prioritized his batting and helped to extend his career.

You are advocating that Kallis should have been a part timer.

Sobers managed his high bowling workload and continued with batting excellence.

Kallis was an increasingly reluctant bowler as his batting got better.

Sobers at the end of the day was a borderline specialist bowler. Kallis was not.

Kallis was far from that and his bowling outside minnows wasn't the game changer that is being presented.

Slips are a tertiary skill as has been clarified to you many times.

 

[kyear2]

Sobers managed his high bowling workload and continued with batting excellence.

Kallis was an increasingly reluctant bowler as his batting got better.

Sobers at the end of the day was a borderline specialist bowler. Kallis was not.

Kallis was far from that and his bowling outside minnows wasn't the game changer that is being presented.

Slips are a tertiary skill as has been clarified to you many times.

How much better would Sobers's number had been if he stayed at 4 and didn't have that work load? I presume much better. 40 overs a match couldn't have helped his batting or longevity.

No one wanted a specialist bowler, an efficient one who can contribute overs, maintain the rotation and get the occasional wicket is ideal.

And oh God, how did this crap come in again, not even relevant to what I said. Slips are as much a secondary skill as anything else and you can't clarify **** to me and are not an authority on the matter.

If you can't watch a cricket match, even the one currently ongoing and see the importance of having the right people in the cordon, and the cost of drops, then you shouldn't be commenting on here.

Just as important as any secondary skill.

Literally asked you how you could read an entire post this morning and the only thing you could walk away with is that one idiotic question.

 

[subshakerz]

How much better would Sobers's number had been if he stayed at 4 and didn't have that work load? I presume much better. 40 overs a match couldn't have helped his batting or longevity.

No one wanted a specialist bowler, an efficient one who can contribute overs, maintain the rotation and get the occasional wicket is ideal.

The point is as a matter of pure athletic and allround cricket ability, Sobers did manage it. Kallis could not. Assuming Sobers would have scored more when he was averaging in the 60s is just an assumption. Kallis' bowling was limited at the end of the day but he still is a top batting AR.

And oh God, how did this crap come in again, not even relevant to what I said. Slips are as much a secondary skill as anything else and you can't clarify **** to me and are not an authority on the matter.

If you can't watch a cricket match, even the one currently ongoing and see the importance of having the right people in the cordon, and the cost of drops, then you shouldn't be commenting on here.

Just as important as any secondary skill.

Literally asked you how you could read an entire post this morning and the only thing you could walk away with is that one idiotic question.

It's not crap. You have yet to give hard evidence that isn't anecdotal that elite slips matter as much as a secondary discipline.

Catching quality is important and I would factor that into my team, but the marginal value of a regular competent slip catcher to an elite catcher is relatively less than that of a tailend bat to a bowling AR or a part time bowler to a proper batting AR.

Great teams by the way aren't selecting folk based on specialist fielding skills. They just have high fielding standards in the team to begin with as a standard.

 

[sayon basak]

How is your no. 17 batsman a top 10 player?

Just like how Keith Miller (who might not make my top 35 bowlers' list) is Top 18 in my cricketer's list.

Sober's is a top 5 batter in my list, but still is the second greatest cricket imo (ratio= 5/2= 2.5)
Kallis is a top 17 Batter in my list, but is a top 10 cricketer imo (ratio= 17/10= 1.7)

2.5>1.7

So, you should take a bigger piss on Sobers imo.

 

[DrWolverine]

Kallis was a very smart cricketer - A great batsman who wanted to prolong his career and knew it was possible by avoiding captaincy and reducing bowling workload