Group C - France, Australia, Peru, Denmark

[sledger]

It used to annoy me especially because another piece of conventional wisdom is "always shoot across the goalkeeper". So the goalkeeper should always cover the place where the striker should never shoot. The former doesn't seem to be around so much anymore. Maybe because Andy Gray was the one pushing it hardest.

I think a lot of old-school footballing wisdom is more about creating structures in which blame can easily be apportioned than it is about playing winning football. Man-marking on corners is the obvious example, but it also applied to the "keeper's side and wall's side" on direct free kicks, "just getting rid of it" at the back, and the keeper covering his near post.

Yeah, the near post thing always used to jar with me because usually the most effective way to reach that spot (i.e. usually down low in the small space between your foot/body and the post) as a keeper is to use your feet, but so many last/current gen keepers will have had using their feet coached out of them, because according to conventional logic it's always much better to "use your hands".

I remember being yelled at by numerous coaches back in the 90s for trying to stop shots like that by sticking out a leg rather than going hands first, even though using a leg would have been more effective, given how ridiculously hard it can be to get your body down to a low shot in time, particularly when you have to make sure you don't crack your head on the post when attempting to. Can remember thinking "yeah, next time I'll go with my hands and it'll be a goal, knobheads" a lot.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Yeah all else being equal the optimal position for a keeper is where there is an equal amount of space on either side of you, so your chances of being beaten at the near or far post would be equal. Obviously all else isn't necessarily equal, but I would think if anything you want to leave more space at the near post seeing as if you parry a shot there it's probably a corner rather than parried across the goal. Tbf I do just think a lot of the time pundits say "shouldn't be beaten at the near post" when they just mean more generally "shouldn't be beaten from a tight angle", which is a theory which holds more water albeit there are obviously exceptions.

 

[Spark]

Yeah all else being equal the optimal position for a keeper is where there is an equal amount of space on either side of you, so your chances of being beaten at the near or far post would be equal. Obviously all else isn't necessarily equal, but I would think if anything you want to leave more space at the near post seeing as if you parry a shot there it's probably a corner rather than parried across the goal. Tbf I do just think a lot of the time pundits say "shouldn't be beaten at the near post" when they just mean more generally "shouldn't be beaten from a tight angle", which is a theory which holds more water albeit there are obviously exceptions.

It's not just equal amounts of space, though. You have marginally less time at your near post too.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, the near post thing always used to jar with me because usually the most effective way to reach that spot (i.e. usually down low in the small space between your foot/body and the post) as a keeper is to use your feet, but so many last/current gen keepers will have had using their feet coached out of them, because according to conventional logic it's always much better to "use your hands".

I remember being yelled at by numerous coaches back in the 90s for trying to stop shots like that by sticking out a leg rather than going hands first, even though using a leg would have been more effective, given how ridiculously hard it can be to get your body down to a low shot in time, particularly when you have to make sure you don't crack your head on the post when attempting to. Can remember thinking "yeah, next time I'll go with my hands and it'll be a goal, knobheads" a lot.

That's interesting. I always thought of Neuer and De Gea as innovative in how they use their bodies. They have very distinctive styles in that situation, Neuer stands up straight and lets anything low hit his legs, DDG spreads his hands and legs while covering the nutmeg with one of his knees. Now I'm thinking they might have just been stubborn enough to ignore the bollocks their coaches were telling them.

I think goalkeeping standards have improved far more than any other aspect of the game since the 90s. You look at any set of highlights pre-2005~ and the keeper makes a big positional error for the majority of goals.

 

[sledger]

That's interesting. I always thought of Neuer and De Gea as innovative in how they use their bodies. They have very distinctive styles in that situation, Neuer stands up straight and lets anything low hit his legs, DDG spreads his hands and legs while covering the nutmeg with one of his knees. Now I'm thinking they might have just been stubborn enough to ignore the bollocks their coaches were telling them.

I think goalkeeping standards have improved far more than any other aspect of the game since the 90s. You look at any set of highlights pre-2005~ and the keeper makes a big positional error for the majority of goals.

Could also just have been English coaching/my coaches tbh (though I suspect the former, as it happened with too many coaches for it to be entirely coincidental for me). But yeah, agree that the standard of goalkeepers has improved massively over the last twenty years, both in terms of keeping and actually being able to play football.

 

[Furball]

Surely the near post thing is also affected by which post so happens to be the keeper's near post at that particular time?

An attacker cutting in from his left wing should have more joy against me than his team-mate cutting in from the right wing because in the latter case I'll be defending my near post with my left hand, which is my strong hand (the opposite will be true for most keepers.)

 

[Ausage]

It used to annoy me especially because another piece of conventional wisdom is "always shoot across the goalkeeper". So the goalkeeper should always cover the place where the striker should never shoot. The former doesn't seem to be around so much anymore. Maybe because Andy Gray was the one pushing it hardest.

I think a lot of old-school footballing wisdom is more about creating structures in which blame can easily be apportioned than it is about playing winning football. Man-marking on corners is the obvious example, but it also applied to the "keeper's side and wall's side" on direct free kicks, "just getting rid of it" at the back, and the keeper covering his near post. Gary Neville's commentary has this tic really badly. When he's not sure which player to blame he blames the system and advocates an alternative in which he could easily find a player to blame.

I think a lot of that kind of "wisdom" is just stuff that hangs around because it's how you teach some of these aspects to children. It's simple enough that you can drum it into a kids head and it gets repeated like a mantra so it gets this aura it rarely deserves. Goalkeeping is the worst as it's so specialised that the difference in knowledge between someone who's played the position and someone who hasn't is pretty huge. Really stands out when you're watching commentators.

 

[Burgey]

Three hours. Frothing

 

[straw man]

go straya

 

[S.Kennedy]

Probably the first time in sport I have ever supported France.

 

[morgieb]

90 seconds in and already the Frogs make a chance. This will only end badly.

 

[Furball]

Such a stupid amount of talent in the France squad, with none of the daft selections from Euro 2016.

 

[Burgey]

Good job Leckie. They can’t run without legs.

 

[straw man]

How many cards will Australia collect tonight? Half a second late to every tackle.

 

[morgieb]

Such a stupid amount of talent in the France squad, with none of the daft selections from Euro 2016.

Yeah I'm pretty sure none of the Socceroos would make even their 3rd/4th XI's.

 

[Burgey]

Fmd thought that was going in.

 

[Burgey]

Not like a Frenchman to go to ground under pressure there.

 

[Gnske]

It was like Hitler went onto the pitch the way that Frenchman dropped

 

[vogue]

Looking for any decent man buns but nothing in sight.. least one superb hipster beard though..
20 minutes up and no score.. quite good from Australia.

 

[Gnske]

God this sport is so lightweight