Group A - India, England, Australia, West Indies

[PhoenixFire]

You just can't leave Pietersen out, unless he is clearly a passenger (like Harmison at the moment). Ask any international side, and they would cut of their right arm to have him in their team.

 

[marc71178]

Pietersen at 3, then the Colrymple brothers, then Flintoff at six. If the 3rd wicket partnership is substantial, Flintoff could move up to 5.

I don't see Pietersen at 3 when his strengths would do us much better service in the slog overs and he has never yet shown the application to bat through.

Dalrymple at 5 looks a bit too high for me.

 

[marc71178]

Vaughan has a shocking one day record,

Overall, that's as maybe, but not in recent times.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Elaborate maybe?

ps: I'm not being rude but just wishing more info on when 'Recent' is?

 

[marc71178]

You just can't leave Pietersen out

If others are performing substantially better then I see no reason to not leave him out.

 

[marc71178]

Elaborate maybe?

ps: I'm not being rude but just wishing more info on when 'Recent' is?

Over his last 20 games, it's a 46 average, including over 40 in 7 of those vs Australia.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Fair enough, but I stll stand by my point about not wrecking his knee in some unimportant ODI, and ending his playing career.

 

[wpdavid]

I would put £10 on it that India beat the Aussies, and then beat the windies, and england also beat the windies (by one hell of a margain) to let India and England progress

Not that it matters, because England will deserve whatever they get in this tournament, but I was surprised to see that the final 2 group games aren't played simultaneously. That does provide the possibility of a little collusion where 2 sides can benefit if a game finished in a certain number of overs, or whatever. Wasn't there a game like that in the 1999 WC, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

 

[tooextracool]

how would KP miss out?

because hes been performing nowhere near the same standard as Cook et all have been?
No not even close.

 

[tooextracool]

You just can't leave Pietersen out, unless he is clearly a passenger (like Harmison at the moment). Ask any international side, and they would cut of their right arm to have him in their team.

And you know this how exactly?
Fact is that most other sides would also happily take the likes of Ian Bell, Paul Collingwood and Alistair Cook as well, and they'd probably do so ahead of Pietersen.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

And you know this how exactly?
Fact is that most other sides would also happily take the likes of Ian Bell, Paul Collingwood and Alistair Cook as well, and they'd probably do so ahead of Pietersen.

I actually think Collingwood would get into most ODI sides long before he would get into the Test side. And I also think it's hardly a fact that most teams would take him ahead of Pietersen either, purely because of the "aura" of Pietersen. Whether or not he is performing better than Collingwood, there will always be a perception of him as the superior player by the majority of people.

 

[tooextracool]

Over his last 20 games, it's a 46 average, including over 40 in 7 of those vs Australia.

except in his last 20 games his average is 30.75, which is over 15 runs less than what you said it was.
http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

Did anyone by any chance tell you that zimbabwe dont count as ODI class opposition anymore?

 

[tooextracool]

I actually think Collingwood would get into most ODI sides long before he would get into the Test side. And I also think it's hardly a fact that most teams would take him ahead of Pietersen either, purely because of the "aura" of Pietersen. Whether or not he is performing better than Collingwood, there will always be a perception of him as the superior player by the majority of people.

Yet his ODI record is quite shocking, and his test record since his return is actually quite good. It only goes to show how players that 'look good' when they score their runs are given more recognition than players that actually go about scoring them. Collingwood has never set the world alight in ODIs, yet because of his stunning fielding and Jonty Rhodes type batting style hes made out to be absolutely brilliant in ODIs. The same works for Pietersen in tests.
AFAIC Collingwood offers more with the ball and in the field than Pietersen does in tests, and from reports hes probably a much better bloke to have in the dressing room than an arrogant git like Pietersen. If hes also scoring more runs than Pietersen is, then its beggars belief that he cant make the side ahead of him.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I think the Ashes is the only thing that can validate Collingwood's claims as a better batsman than Pietersen. I'm a big fan of Collingwood's since the start, and I really hope he does well, but I don't envision it. He'll be facing quick bowling on bouncy wickets, and I don't think that exactly plays to his strengths.

 

[marc71178]

except in his last 20 games his average is 30.75, which is over 15 runs less than what you said it was.
http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

Did anyone by any chance tell you that zimbabwe dont count as ODI class opposition anymore?

Yet you've still included them in that list

 

[tooextracool]

I think the Ashes is the only thing that can validate Collingwood's claims as a better batsman than Pietersen. I'm a big fan of Collingwood's since the start, and I really hope he does well, but I don't envision it. He'll be facing quick bowling on bouncy wickets, and I don't think that exactly plays to his strengths.

I do fear a bit for Collingwood in Australia. Hes been at home on subcontinental wickets because his technique being rather wristy with a low back lift has been rather perfect for the conditions. Its going to be completely different in Australia but i think that if he works hard in the nets to try and produce a simulation of bouncy bowling he might just end up doing quite well because he is quite a hard working player. Ive always liked his attitude and determination and i do hope that he does well in Australia.

 

[tooextracool]

Yet you've still included them in that list

Yes i included a whole 1 game, so your statement is grammatically incorrect for using 'them'. I would of course not have included it had i known of a way to use the cricinfo filter to eliminate games against more than one team. As such i had to use the option to filter out games against bangladesh and the ones played in Zimbabwe. Unfortunately the game against Zimbabwe in the champions trophy didnt quite make its way out.
Nonetheless the statistic still proves you wrong.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Yes i included a whole 1 game, so your statement is grammatically incorrect for using 'them'.

Not if he is referring to Zimbabwe itself.

Regarding Collingwood, he has been out and played two years of grade cricket in Melbourne, although these wickets don't all tend to be as bouncy as what you'd find in FC wickets, and probably a little bit slower.

 

[Great Birtannia]

Wasn't there a game like that in the 1999 WC, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

Steve Waugh and Bevan batted out a number of overs without scoring chasing a small target against the West Indies to eliminate New Zealand and instead take West Indies into the super sixes (on run rate ahead of New Zealand). Australia had lost to NZ in the qualifiers so they preferred WI to qualify to take an extra 2 points into the next stage. I'm pretty sure a similar thing happened (against Australia) in a VB series as well.

 

[winneer123]

india and wi

i feel india and australia
u never know when a team can show how well it plays

No brainer, India and Australia to qualify.