Greatest Pakistani fast bowler - Wasim or Imran?

[vcs]

IMO Akram could do more things with the ball (I say this without having watched Imran at all ), but Imran was the better Test match bowler.

 

[Teja.]

Go with the "other" myself: Waqar Younis for me. At his peak he was the most devastating bowler I've ever seen. His yorker was an absolute joy to behold.

Of these two, too tough to call. I'd put Waqar just above both of them, though.

Yeah, A Waqar man myself too.

 

[vcs]

Imran > Wasim > Waqar in Tests IMO. All three of them magnificent bowlers, obviously.

 

[Teja.]

If I try to close down my significant bias and make a judgement, I reckon I'd have Imran>Waqar>Wasim. But I largely cabef doing that so I'll vote for other.

 

[Borges]

Akram.The complete bowler.Plus retained his teeth till the end of his career.

No. He didn't.

dude Imran has one of the most complete bowling records of all. He averages less than 30 in all countries that he has bowled in.

Imran also has a better SR, Econ Rate, and averages sub 30 against all teams.

Here are the records

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

There are two Akrams really; the one before he was diagnosed with diabetes and the one after. The latter bowler was a pale shadow of the former.

There is very little to choose between Akram pre-1998 and Imran (based on statistics alone).

Imran: 88 matches, 362 wickets @22.81, 4.11 wickts/match, SR 53.7
Akram 1985-1997: 77 matches, 334 wickets @22.34, 4.33 wickts/match, SR 51.9.

Akram 1998-2002: 27 matches, 80 wickets @28.96, 2.96 wickts/match, SR 66.0

Akram continued playing cricket despite a debilitating condition, and he was still good enough to represent his country. Ironic that the typical fan would have considered him to be a greater bowler if he did not have the courage to do that.

 

[vcs]

Waqar in some ways reminds me of Sehwag. Destructive, explosive, brilliant to watch, always attacking and could tear a team apart on his day, but somewhat reliant on physical attributes (like Sehwag is on his hand-eye coordination), and has a few "holes" in his record.

 

[Teja.]

Waqar in some ways reminds me of Sehwag. Destructive, explosive, brilliant to watch, always attacking and could tear a team apart on his day, but somewhat reliant on physical attributes (like Sehwag is on his hand-eye coordination), and has a few "holes" in his record.

The most important distinction for me is that Waqar prospered both on pitches a pacer is expected to succeed on and on the extremely flat ones. Sehwag did only one of the above for batsman. Yes, Waqar has a bad record against Oz, but he compensated for it IMO, buy being immense on many other flat tracks consistently. In the one test series he played in India, He was not fully fit and was clearly playing on half an engine and considering it's such a small sample size, It'd be foolish to draw conclusions from it. I've no doubt whatsoever that Waqar is definitely the greater cricketer tbh.

 

[vcs]

Sehwag did great in Australia and on some spin-friendly tracks against Warne and Murali/Mendis in SL. Fast bowling friendly tracks are not the only bowling-friendly tracks. Don't want to make this a Sehwag vs. Waqar debate BTW, just wanted to point out some salient parallels in their careers.

I agree Waqar's record against India should not be analyzed too much. Bowled very well by all accounts in his debut series, rattled Tendulkar at times, and though he was disappointing in '99, that's only 3 Tests. Not enough sample size.

 

[Blaze 18]

Wasim Akram.

 

[smash84]

Imran > Wasim > Waqar in Tests IMO. All three of them magnificent bowlers, obviously.

awta

Agreed. Imran is the best Test bowler Pakistan ever produced. Heck, Imran has a legitimate claim to be included in the top 5 bowlers of all-time.

<Just ignore my vote for Akram in the poll. I must have been smoking the good stuff that day>

haha......yeah strange that you voted for Akram in the poll

If I try to close down my significant bias and make a judgement, I reckon I'd have Imran>Waqar>Wasim. But I largely cabef doing that so I'll vote for other.

Having followed Wasim and Waqar's career and Imran's as well (to a lesser extent though) I would go with VCS's ranking. The problem with Waqar is that he was possibly the most lethal bowler ever to play the game during his peak years but his peak lasted only four years. He could blast away the opposition team with just his inswinging yorker after yorker and clean them up in 5 mins but this only lasted for a few years. After that period it was downhill quite rapidly.

Imran on the other hand was arguably the greatest fast bowler in the world from 1980-88 (barring his 2-2.5 years of injury where he did not bowl) which is a significantly longer period than Waqar or Wasim's peak.


Top bowlers in the world between 1980 and 1988 (Qual: 150 wickets)
Bowler Tests Wickets Average Strike rate 5WI/ 10WM
Imran 48 236 17.77 43.6 18/ 5
Hadlee 51 284 19.03 47.0 28/ 7
Marshall 58 297 20.20 44.7 18/ 3
Garner 49 210 20.62 51.8 7/ 0
Holding 45 184 23.38 50.3 9/ 1
Lillee 35 171 24.07 52.3 11/ 3

Off topic but I also came across this........makes for interesting reading that there could be so much acrimony b/w Pak and Sri Lankan teams

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/415544.html

 

[salman85]

Injuries took their toll on Waqar,and his relationship with Wasim could also be put in there as a factor.But the latter is politics and something that every cricketer in Pakistan has to go through.To his credit,he kept on fighting,making comebacks when least expected and i feel he was a better captain than his stint at the top suggests.

An on song Waqar was more lethal than an on song Wasim and Imran TBF.When batsmen start wearing toe protectors because of you,you've got to be pretty ****ing special.

 

[smash84]

An on song Waqar was more lethal than an on song Wasim and Imran TBF.When batsmen start wearing toe protectors because of you,you've got to be pretty ****ing special.

did any one ever wear those???? haha....that does sound awesome

Did you check out Imran's stats that I posted on the last page???? Is that an awesome peak or what????

 

[salman85]

Yeah i checked out those stats.Brilliant stuff.Almost as good as his womanizing stats

And I've read/heard about county batsmen wearing toe protectors against Waqar.I don't know how true it is,but even if it isn't,in my mind it is

 

[smash84]

Yeah i checked out those stats.Brilliant stuff.Almost as good as his womanizing stats

And I've read/heard about county batsmen wearing toe protectors against Waqar.I don't know how true it is,but even if it isn't,in my mind it is

and now all your claims regarding Wasim being the best should go down the drain

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

I never really saw Wasim at his peak (started watching after WC 1999) and Imran, obviously, not at all in a live match.

However, based on extensive reading on cricket, watching old videos and listening to ardent cricket lovers (including my old man), I have sketched certain opinions about them. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind at least that both are among the all-time great bowlers.

Wasim Akram: A wonderfully talented bloke with a superb wrist position during delivery. That gave him a unique ability to swing it late at high pace generated with a rapid arm-action.

I am however, not convinced, that Wasim was as physically strong (to soldier on during long, tough spells) as Imran or even Waqar, for that matter. Mental resolve and tenacity could be another factor that thinly separated Wasim from Imran Khan. Perhaps, he was so naturally gifted that he never had to work as had as some others. I'm not sure, but if the going got really tough, I'd back an Imran Khan rather than a Wasim Akram to bowl my side to victory.


Imran Khan: By all accounts, one of the most amazing fast bowlers' stories one can imagine. Not a natural fast bowler by any means, he totally altered his action and through sheer guts and hard work, became a great bowler when he was well into his late 20s.

Imran was the trailblazer and a pioneer in a region where the art of fast and swing bowling were practically unknown*. The prevalent perception was that the new-ball bowler was to get the ball old for the spinners and would get 5-6 overs, at best, during the start of the innings. Imran Khan single-handedly challenged that school of reasoning and developed enough pace, swing (conventional and Irish), variations, physical stamina and mental resolve to produce match-winning spells in the sub-continent. No one before him had such an impact on turf wickets in the region.

He led the way and showed something new to the cricketing world - that a sub-continental fast bowler can be a lethal match-winning weapon on the low, dusty tracks of Faisalabad, the bouncy Australian pitches or in wet English conditons. That realisation and motivation alone was sufficient to inspire a generation of cricketers to come.

Another significant factor is that, like a truly great sportsman, Khan improved as he advanced in age and with each tour. His bowling repertoire expanded, he was still quick in his mid-30s (testimony to the man's fitness) and as a captain and new-ball bowler he led from the front.



My inference: For sheer work-ethic, mastery in all conditions and going against the grain ('remember son, opening bowlers help in getting the ball old in sub-continental wickets' ) with such audacity and success, Imran Khan is the superior bowler.

As highly as I rate Akram, I have to say that Khan is the best fast bowler that Asia ever produced. Just my modest opinion and is not to be interpreted as Gospel truth!


*(Fazal Mahmood and Khan Mohammad, great as they were, played a long time ago to register sufficiently into the general public's imagination. The general identification of the sub-continental public was not quite there.)

 

[smash84]

I never really saw Wasim at his peak (started watching after WC 1999) and Imran, obviously, not at all in a live match.

However, based on extensive reading on cricket, watching old videos and listening to ardent cricket lovers (including my old man), I have sketched certain opinions about them. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind at least that both are among the all-time great bowlers.

Wasim Akram: A wonderfully talented bloke with a superb wrist position during delivery. That gave him a unique ability to swing it late at high pace generated with a rapid arm-action.

I am however, not convinced, that Wasim was as physically strong (to soldier on during long, tough spells) as Imran or even Waqar, for that matter. Mental resolve and tenacity could be another factor that thinly separated Wasim from Imran Khan. Perhaps, he was so naturally gifted that he never had to work as had as some others. I'm not sure, but if the going got really tough, I'd back an Imran Khan rather than a Wasim Akram to bowl my side to victory.


Imran Khan: By all accounts, one of the most amazing fast bowlers' stories one can imagine. Not a natural fast bowler by any means, he totally altered his action and through sheer guts and hard work, became a great bowler when he was well into his late 20s.

Imran was the trailblazer and a pioneer in a region where the art of fast and swing bowling were practically unknown*. The prevalent perception was that the new-ball bowler was to get the ball old for the spinners and would get 5-6 overs, at best, during the start of the innings. Imran Khan single-handedly challenged that school of reasoning and developed enough pace, swing (conventional and Irish), variations, physical stamina and mental resolve to produce match-winning spells in the sub-continent. No one before him had such an impact on turf wickets in the region.

He led the way and showed something new to the cricketing world - that a sub-continental fast bowler can be a lethal match-winning weapon on the low, dusty tracks of Faisalabad, the bouncy Australian pitches or in wet English conditons. That realisation and motivation alone was sufficient to inspire a generation of cricketers to come.

Another significant factor is that, like a truly great sportsman, Khan improved as he advanced in age and with each tour. His bowling repertoire expanded, he was still quick in his mid-30s (testimony to the man's fitness) and as a captain and new-ball bowler he led from the front.



My inference: For sheer work-ethic, mastery in all conditions and going against the grain ('remember son, opening bowlers help in getting the ball old in sub-continental wickets' ) with such audacity and success, Imran Khan is the superior bowler.

As highly as I rate Akram, I have to say that Khan is the best fast bowler that Asia ever produced. Just my modest opinion and is not to be interpreted as Gospel truth!


*(Fazal Mahmood and Khan Mohammad, great as they were, played a long time ago to register sufficiently into the general public's imagination. The general identification of the sub-continental public was not quite there.)

Wow dude. You write well. I think you will be a great addition to CW (i.e. if you stay long enough). Welcome to cricket web. I hope you have a great time here

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Wow dude. You write well. I think you will be a great addition to CW (i.e. if you stay long enough). Welcome to cricket web. I hope you have a great time here

Thanks! It's a fine site. I had been lurking around for a few months. Thought I might as well create an account.

 

[smash84]

Thanks! It's a fine site. I had been lurking around for a few months. Thought I might as well create an account.

i think that is a step in the right direction

 

[zaremba]

Imran - Good old (Sus)*** by the Sea

 

[Howe_zat]

I never really saw Wasim at his peak (started watching after WC 1999) and Imran, obviously, not at all in a live match.

However, based on extensive reading on cricket, watching old videos and listening to ardent cricket lovers (including my old man), I have sketched certain opinions about them. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind at least that both are among the all-time great bowlers.

Wasim Akram: A wonderfully talented bloke with a superb wrist position during delivery. That gave him a unique ability to swing it late at high pace generated with a rapid arm-action.

I am however, not convinced, that Wasim was as physically strong (to soldier on during long, tough spells) as Imran or even Waqar, for that matter. Mental resolve and tenacity could be another factor that thinly separated Wasim from Imran Khan. Perhaps, he was so naturally gifted that he never had to work as had as some others. I'm not sure, but if the going got really tough, I'd back an Imran Khan rather than a Wasim Akram to bowl my side to victory.


Imran Khan: By all accounts, one of the most amazing fast bowlers' stories one can imagine. Not a natural fast bowler by any means, he totally altered his action and through sheer guts and hard work, became a great bowler when he was well into his late 20s.

Imran was the trailblazer and a pioneer in a region where the art of fast and swing bowling were practically unknown*. The prevalent perception was that the new-ball bowler was to get the ball old for the spinners and would get 5-6 overs, at best, during the start of the innings. Imran Khan single-handedly challenged that school of reasoning and developed enough pace, swing (conventional and Irish), variations, physical stamina and mental resolve to produce match-winning spells in the sub-continent. No one before him had such an impact on turf wickets in the region.

He led the way and showed something new to the cricketing world - that a sub-continental fast bowler can be a lethal match-winning weapon on the low, dusty tracks of Faisalabad, the bouncy Australian pitches or in wet English conditons. That realisation and motivation alone was sufficient to inspire a generation of cricketers to come.

Another significant factor is that, like a truly great sportsman, Khan improved as he advanced in age and with each tour. His bowling repertoire expanded, he was still quick in his mid-30s (testimony to the man's fitness) and as a captain and new-ball bowler he led from the front.



My inference: For sheer work-ethic, mastery in all conditions and going against the grain ('remember son, opening bowlers help in getting the ball old in sub-continental wickets' ) with such audacity and success, Imran Khan is the superior bowler.

As highly as I rate Akram, I have to say that Khan is the best fast bowler that Asia ever produced. Just my modest opinion and is not to be interpreted as Gospel truth!


*(Fazal Mahmood and Khan Mohammad, great as they were, played a long time ago to register sufficiently into the general public's imagination. The general identification of the sub-continental public was not quite there.)

What do you think you're doing? You didn't use a single stats filter in this argument.

Great post mate. Hoping you stick around.