Greatest finisher and clutch player ever?

[CodeOfWisden]

Definitely. Steve Smith is a choker in 4th innings in test. Whereas his record in knockout matches in ODI WC is exceptional.

Okay i dont really understand how this works, Steve Smith has played dozena of 'CLUTCH

Exactly, whereas Kohli has a good record in T20 KOs, but appalling in WCs and in the third innings of tests, where he's basically a walking wicket.

So Kohli is now a choker in 3rd innings but not in 4th because he has a good record there. Are you listening to yourselves.

What's so special about third innings? Please do tell

As for Steve Smith being a choker in 4th innings, i would just say that is more of a random thing, I have no reason to believe a guy who can deal with pressure in knockout matches and rest of the three innings can somehow lose it all when it comes to 4th innings.


Choking refers to a player losing his marbles under pressure it is not in any way a format specific or innings specific thing.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

Choking is definitely a concept.

If Kohli wasn't a choker in knockout matches ,India would definitely have atleast 1 ICC trophy in last 7 years.

Why 7? , extend it to 8 years.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

You could draw a cartoon cricket bat on a tree stump and it would matter in India

My argument being that Kohli is definitely under a lot of pressure when he plays in t20 wc knockouts because of a whole country following it religiously.
Stones were thrown at Yuvraj Singh's mansion after that 14 world cup

 

[sunilz]

My argument being that Kohli is definitely under a lot of pressure when he plays in t20 wc knockouts because of a whole country following it religiously.
Stones were thrown at Yuvraj Singh's mansion after that 14 world cup

ODI WC has more following than T20 WC imo.

 

[Burgey]

My argument being that Kohli is definitely under a lot of pressure when he plays in t20 wc knockouts because of a whole country following it religiously.
Stones were thrown at Yuvraj Singh's mansion after that 14 world cup

Spare us this crap about being under more pressure because your population is big. You’re a pro sportsman ffs. Pressure comes from the state of tthe game. Do you reckon Kohli walks out to bat in a big game in SA or NZ and thinks “oh ****, the pressure of people watching on another (sub)continent is just too much?”

Come on. Most ridiculous argument I’ve ever heard run on here, and I’ve had the displeasure to read the gormless collected works of Weldone, HB and the likes of h_hurricane to name but three.

 

[stephen]

The pressure comes from the thought "am I really the best in the world" or "this is the most important game against the very best, can I do this" or some other self talk. The very best live for that moment. The bigger the stage the more strongly they answer. Look at Warne in 99. Worst form of his life after the shoulder injury, had been dropped in the West Indies. Had a poor tournament but his team had scraped through to the semi finals. His team is getting absolutely pumped and Steve Waugh brings him on to bowl.

What did Warne do? He bowled one of the most impactful spells in cricketing history, taking 4-29 and totally changed the momentum of the game.

That is clutch cricket. It's the ability for the very best to take self doubt and snap its neck. It's stepping up and grabbing the game by the balls when everything is on the line. It's roaring in the face of the lion and watching it back down. That's what being a clutch player is. It has nothing to do with how many likes your Instagram account gets.

 

[honestbharani]

Spare us this crap about being under more pressure because your population is big. You’re a pro sportsman ffs. Pressure comes from the state of tthe game. Do you reckon Kohli walks out to bat in a big game in SA or NZ and thinks “oh ****, the pressure of people watching on another (sub)continent is just too much?” Come on. Most ridiculous argument I’ve ever heard run on here, and I’ve had the displeasure to read the gormless collected works of Weldone, HB and the likes of h_hurricane to name but three.

 

[srbhkshk]

ODI WC has more following than T20 WC imo.

You would struggle to make anyone believe that Kohli wasn't in enormous pressure in the virtual knock out against Australia (In fact that's probably the most stressful WC game of any type India has won in recent times) or the semi final against west indies or the match against Pakistan or the final of 2011 WC or like the whole of 2014 T20 cup or the final of 2013 CT.

He has had rubbish performances in 2015 and 2019 ODI knock outs for sure, but choking is a mental thing - you can't be mentally strong on even days and weak on odd, it's not something that you judge by a cricinfo filter.

 

[honestbharani]

it's not something that you judge by a cricinfo filter.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Spare us this crap about being under more pressure because your population is big. You’re a pro sportsman ffs. Pressure comes from the state of tthe game. Do you reckon Kohli walks out to bat in a big game in SA or NZ and thinks “oh ****, the pressure of people watching on another (sub)continent is just too much?”

Come on. Most ridiculous argument I’ve ever heard run on here, and I’ve had the displeasure to read the gormless collected works of Weldone, HB and the likes of h_hurricane to name but three.

Agreed, sorry friends pro sportspeople do not give a **** about public expectations, they just want to earn lots of cash from their job like the rest of us.

 

[honestbharani]

Agreed, sorry friends pro sportspeople do not give a **** about public expectations, they just want to earn lots of cash from their job like the rest of us.

I dont think its that simple. I suppose you get used to it over time but its never easy to walk out in front of so many people knowing if you don't perform, you are kinda letting them down. I never agreed with this as a reason to big up Sachin over Lara, so I definitely do not buy into the "Indians always play under pressure" nonsense but the crowd stuff does play a part, at least in the early years of someone's career.

But when it comes to actual pressure, more than the arbitrary WC finals nonsense, I think of it more from perspective of how much the dressing room was depending on you. Its one reason why I became such a big Lara fanboi, coz you can literally see how much his side depended on him, everytime. Same with Virat in the IPL 2016. Of course, good sides balance this by having multiple great players but to me, the dressing room pressure is a very real thing for cricketers at least.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah but the dressing room pressure is there whether your repping China, India or Nauru.

 

[Daemon]

Lol at thinking the pressure Tendulkar was under daily even while he slept is comparable to the 7 fans of an Alan Border or something. Smh.

Imagine ****ing up then going home to your family being attacked, death threats and nutters rioting in the street.

The pressure adjusted average of Tendulkar is around 80 imo.

 

[Flem274*]

indians thinking they have a monopoly on pressure is adorable

im old enough to remember when an all black losing a game was a moral failing on his behalf and you could say and do whatever you liked to him. heck i remember the stick mcmillan copped for being diabetic and rotund during his career.

honestly the maturation of sports fanbases is one of the best parts of the last 20 years. it might not seem like it sometimes but we have gotten a lot better.

 

[Daemon]

I actually pressure adjust NZ cricketers averages upwards too.

Lots of pressure when you only play 4 tests a year and the boss keeps reminding you that each one could push them into the red for the year.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Lol at thinking the pressure Tendulkar was under daily even while he slept is comparable to the 7 fans of an Alan Border or something. Smh.

Imagine ****ing up then going home to your family being attacked, death threats and nutters rioting in the street.

The pressure adjusted average of Tendulkar is around 80 imo.

This happens to me daily except I don't have millions of dollars to buy private security to shoot all the slum people who come within a mile of my mansion.

 

[Daemon]

This happens to me daily except I don't have millions of dollars to buy private security to shoot all the slum people who come within a mile of my mansion.

Imagine living with the burden of having to kill poor people. It's a tough life.

 

[Chewie]

Indian cricket stans v Korean kpop stans which is worse

 

[Victor Ian]

Easily Kpop fans worse. At least Indian fans are watching something good.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

People who call themselves "stans" are missing the original point of the whole song