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Greatest Fast Bowler Ever

archie mac

International Coach
My post war top 10 Right arm pace men ( I am not considering bowlers who were medium fast such as Bedser & Hadlee)

1= Lillee
2= Ambrose
3= Marshall
4=Lindwall
5= Trueman
6= Holding
7= McGrath
8= Younis
9= Garner
10= Imran
 

priestfan

Cricket Spectator
C_C said:
When i debate greatest fast bowler, speed to me, is a secondary concern.
In that sense, i debate 'greatest bowlers' in just two categories - spinners and pacers.

My greatest pacers ever list :


1. Malcolm Marshall
2. Imran Khan
3. Curtley Ambrose
4. Glenn McGrath
5. Richard Hadlee
6. Wasim Akram
7. Michael Holding
8. Joel Garner
9. Alan Donald
10. Alan Davidson
My list is a distorted reflection of yours

Roberts
Lillee
Imran
Marshall
Akram
Thommo
Younis of the 90s
Fred Truman
Garner
John Snow

Holding is a different matter altogether.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
John Snow - excellent name.

Any fast bowler who is still a dirty word in the Antipodes must be right up there.
 

priestfan

Cricket Spectator
Blaze said:
Hadlee seems to be very underrated on this board.

Hadlee is up there but in my opinion his performances on unfriendly tracks were rather mediocre. He seemed to care too much about his records and stats as if they were those dainty shoes and the world a puddle. I am a big fan of his though. He took care of Desmond Haynes with a delivery that stopped the clock.

When one begins to rate these bowlers one overlooks the fact that in their greatness they are all one, are possessed by the same demons and have the same quests. Personal preferences add colour to the truth as it were but do not mean much at least in the course of this paragraph. Roberts was as much a threat as Lillee. Imran as difficult a prospect as Marshall. They all proved their worth against the master batsmen and on dead tracks to boot.

What is more interesting is the lot of might have beens and also rans. One wonders what Sylvester Clarke might have achieved had cricket been his only besetting sin. And who can say Croft was a lesser man in comparison? And that silly lad Sarfraz Nawaz who could show the mighty LLoyd the way to the pavillion in a matter of two deliveries is another under achiever.
Does anyone remember Rodney Hogg? He hit Viv on the face once.. with the ball for the sake of clarification. Garth le Roux...there were so many of them but the world gives the prize to a select few and leaves the rest for that prime scavenger that goes by the name of History. And history is ever a sad case of fiction before facts.

The fast bowlers of the 90s had to contend with stupid rules and graveyard dirt. They could not see the sense in working as hard as Lillee or Imran. One day cricket has demeaned the game to such an extent that the real thing lives half forgotten.
In the days of the genuine pacemen Viv, Richie Richardson, Greg Chappel, Sunil Gavaskar, Vishwanath. Wasim Raja, Majid Khan. Sadiq Mohammad and so many others graced the stage. In the modern game batting has been reduced to a farce. Bowlers have no motivation left. The sponsors want runs. Ball running to the boundary and benson and hedges written in font size 1024 makes more sense than the game of chess between Gavaskar and Roberts.
 

Beleg

International Regular
The fast bowlers of the 90s had to contend with stupid rules and graveyard dirt. They could not see the sense in working as hard as Lillee or Imran. One day cricket has demeaned the game to such an extent that the real thing lives half forgotten.
In the days of the genuine pacemen Viv, Richie Richardson, Greg Chappel, Sunil Gavaskar, Vishwanath. Wasim Raja, Majid Khan. Sadiq Mohammad and so many others graced the stage. In the modern game batting has been reduced to a farce. Bowlers have no motivation left.
Talk about sweeping generalization...
 

Mecnun

U19 Debutant
For me and in no partcular order - Holding, Imran, Lille from yesteryears and Waqar & Ambrose from the 90's. Honourable mentions for Ian bishop and Mohammed Zahid-They could have been somethging special.....

p.s priest fan I have enjoyed reading your posts and agree true fast bowlers are about character, indomitable spirit and that little bit of untamed and unexplainable nature which sets them apart from the rest..
 

priestfan

Cricket Spectator
Mecnun said:
For me and in no partcular order - Holding, Imran, Lille from yesteryears and Waqar & Ambrose from the 90's. Honourable mentions for Ian bishop and Mohammed Zahid-They could have been somethging special.....

p.s priest fan I have enjoyed reading your posts and agree true fast bowlers are about character, indomitable spirit and that little bit of untamed and unexplainable nature which sets them apart from the rest..
Mcnun you hit the nail on the head with more than due grace. I stand accused of generalizing the matter beyond sense apparently but the world turns on such pardonable offences.
As the great viv once said " Fast bowling is hard work that is why only a precious few fast bowlers are around"

The way I see it, eternal pessimist that I am, the pace culture is going out of the game and mere accuracy at medium fast thereabouts is enough to restrict the batsman. The temperament of the pacer has been reduced from that of the warrior to a lazy day's angler by the sleepiest of streams.

Cricket will redeem itself sooner or later and the purists will have the last laugh.
Mohammad Zahid in Australia was fantastic as was Bishop before the injuries caught up with him. Bishop was extremely fast. Faster than his co assasin Ambrose.There was also another bowler from Pakistan who could extract the old world bounce from any track. But he did not have the venom or the madness or perhaps could not curry favour with the selectors. He was a big guy with a slow bounding run up. I have forgotten his name.

I have learnt much from the cricket web.
 

Beleg

International Regular
^

Oh, beyond doubt.


There's a huge difference between what you are saying and what priestfan wrote though.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Beleg said:
^

Oh, beyond doubt.


There's a huge difference between what you are saying and what priestfan wrote though.
Only in the way it's written.

I agree with every single word he wrote.
 

priestfan

Cricket Spectator
luckyeddie said:
Only in the way it's written.

I agree with every single word he wrote.
Dedicated to you Luckyeddie. My advancing years seldom allow me to pay much attention to today's music or cricket. I am much interested to know about the best over you have ever seen.

Lillee's against Viv in 1981 is something I missed. Could you perhaps tell me more about it? And what about Iron Butterfly!!
 

Beleg

International Regular
luckyeddie posted,

I agree with every single word he wrote.
Okay than.

priestfan posted,

In the modern game batting has been reduced to a farce. Bowlers have no motivation left.
I'd like to see anyone try to back up/prove these statements. Perhaps the determination and effort put in by the bowlers has descreased during the last decade or so (certainly up for debate), but to summarily dismiss their performances as devoid of any vigour whatsoever is being extremely presumptions and more than borderline arrogant.

Has priestfan watched Mohd. Shabbir bowl twenty overs in the unrelenting oven of Peshawar? I saw Rana Naveed bowling his heart out in Australia when two days previosuly he had suffered one of the biggest tragedies a son can suffer. (loss of a loving parent) His body language, the set of his jaws and the beads of prespiration glittering off his forhead all showed quite clearly that he had forced himself to become completely focused, forgetting the tragedy (for the moment) and set his eyes only on the game. If that isn't complete commitment and love for the game than I don't know what is.

Suffice to say, he also reaped the rewards for his determination.

Who is to say that there aren't countless other similar people scattered across the globe?

Your statement is valid because it can be proven both qualitatively and quantitatively that pitches have gotten easier for batting over the last few years, providing batsmen with the upperhand. Furthermore it doesn't have any of the negative and highly arrogant connotations implicated by the quoted sentence.


The previous generations were great, there is no doubt about that. Maybe better than the current one. Sing their praises all you like, but don't belittle those who show heart and commitment today.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Beleg, yours is a quite typical OTT reaction - I have attempted to debate issues with you on several occasions in the past and it soon degenerates into puerile point-scoring. I have no doubt this will too, so I concede and bow out.

Priestfan - regarding Iron Butterfly - they were never my cup of tea. At the end of the 60's I liked Pink Floyd, Sabbath, Purple, Zep and even folkies like Fairport Convention, but Iron Butterfly? Not really.
 
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priestfan

Cricket Spectator
luckyeddie said:
Beleg, yours is a quite typical OTT reaction - I have attempted to debate issues with you on several occasions in the past and it soon degenerates into puerile point-scoring. I have no doubt this will too, so I concede and bow out.

Priestfan - regarding Iron Butterfly - they were never my cup of tea. At the end of the 60's I liked Pink Floyd, Sabbath, Purple, Zep and even folkies like Fairport Convention, but Iron Butterfly? Not really.

I liked the Inna gada da vida album. It always left me amused. I was a die hard king crimson fan but back then those esoteric references were definitely beyond me.
Motorhead is another band I for some reason could not get into. I loved the ace of spades as did every body else. Floyd's song Cirrus Minor was another captivating piece of music for me but at the risk of offending die hard floydians I would say the serious floyd stuff is down to just the five albums.

Anyway it is good to keep the eye on the ball lest our lives flash before our eyes when we are not looking.
Roy Fredericks hooking Lillee for six and fates summing it up as a case of hit wicket...!
 

priestfan

Cricket Spectator
Beleg said:
luckyeddie posted,



Okay than.

priestfan posted,



I'd like to see anyone try to back up/prove these statements. Perhaps the determination and effort put in by the bowlers has descreased during the last decade or so (certainly up for debate), but to summarily dismiss their performances as devoid of any vigour whatsoever is being extremely presumptions and more than borderline arrogant.

Has priestfan watched Mohd. Shabbir bowl twenty overs in the unrelenting oven of Peshawar? I saw Rana Naveed bowling his heart out in Australia when two days previosuly he had suffered one of the biggest tragedies a son can suffer. (loss of a loving parent) His body language, the set of his jaws and the beads of prespiration glittering off his forhead all showed quite clearly that he had forced himself to become completely focused, forgetting the tragedy (for the moment) and set his eyes only on the game. If that isn't complete commitment and love for the game than I don't know what is.

Suffice to say, he also reaped the rewards for his determination.

Who is to say that there aren't countless other similar people scattered across the globe?

Your statement is valid because it can be proven both qualitatively and quantitatively that pitches have gotten easier for batting over the last few years, providing batsmen with the upperhand. Furthermore it doesn't have any of the negative and highly arrogant connotations implicated by the quoted sentence.


The previous generations were great, there is no doubt about that. Maybe better than the current one. Sing their praises all you like, but don't belittle those who show heart and commitment today.
Pakistan then has some very bright prospects. The bowler I forgot to mention is Mohammad Akram.
Admittedly I have not seen M.Shabir. Arrogance is too damnable a vice. I would happily accept the mantle of the resident fogy here.
You could have stated all this in a friendly manner instead you chose to over interpret my enthusiasm for the cricket of the 70s/80s. You must also realize that the context created by such debates some times only captures half the issue. If I sum up something in a way that does not seem to make sense to you pray go neath the surface and see for yourself why the cricket of the modern era has become less interesting.
The recent Ashes tour was a ray of hope. I stand by my opinions and every thing I have said with the due respect for the others on this forum. Sometimes an oversensitve mind like yours can discern something not quite intended.
Be that as it may I hope you get over my effusive tributes to my heroes in time.
I will however be more interested in your assesment of the present day pakistan pace attack.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
priestfan said:
Dedicated to you Luckyeddie. My advancing years seldom allow me to pay much attention to today's music or cricket. I am much interested to know about the best over you have ever seen.

Lillee's against Viv in 1981 is something I missed. Could you perhaps tell me more about it? And what about Iron Butterfly!!
Always difficult to decide on something as fleeting as a single over - and senility has kicked in for me too, hence the reason why I become easily distracted.

Oh, look. A robin!
 

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