"Greatest Ever" Lists - A Modern Evolution

[Bonnie Prince C]

So you're saying that players can't be considered ATGs unless they're modern? Seems a bit of an oxymoron - when exactly are you drawing the line - 1980, or maybe later?

Surely 1980 is not recent enough, they wouldn't have HD and 3D cameras. No hot spot to see exactly where on the bat the ball hit and such like.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

With today's standards players don't have to worry about salaries to support their families and other sorts of societal pressures. Therefore everyone has the chance to work just as hard and put the right amount of effort into the game. That wasn't the case in Grace's time, hence inflating his average against people who couldn't put in the time or effort.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Playing sport was also a luxury few could afford. Can't say the same for today. So more even competition today due to more involvement.

 

[unam]

awta 2 posts

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Players like Akhtar who have exceptional talent but are from poor families would not have even had the chance to play the game in Grace's time. Grace was an educated member of society and therefore could afford to play.

 

[unam]

Players like Akhtar who have exceptional talent but are from poor families would not have even had the chance to play the game in Grace's time. Grace was an educated member of society and therefore could afford to play.

add to the list players like Asif and Amir. Both extremely talented players from poor families.

 

[Burgey]

add to the list players like Asif and Amir. Both extremely talented players from poor families.

Both corrupt too.

The game sure needs them.

 

[Bonnie Prince C]

So what about the the advantages that modern players have compared to when Grace placed? Dodgey bowling actions, such as underarm bowling, mine field uncovered wickets, far lesser equipment.

Cricket helps batsmen more and more nowadays.

 

[smash84]

What you basically said was you think Tendulkar can piss higher than Grace and that he has a massive penis, despite the fact you would be arrested for attempting to prove this is the case.

 

[smash84]

Agent, are you serious or just trolling?

 

[Somerset]

To add to the statistics from Zaremba and PEWS, Cricinfo did an article on Grace a few years ago which I bookmarked and makes for more interesting reading: WG Grace: stats analysis | Specials | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

• In 1871, aged 23, he scored 10 centuries and 2739 first-class runs at 78.25. The next best average was 37.66 with just one hundred.
• Even 31 seasons later, he scored 1187 at 37.09, while Victor Trumper, at age 24, averaged 48.49 (Trumper's best season).
• In 1876, he scored 839 runs in a mere eight days, with a sequence that read 344, 177 and 318 not out. It was a season when only one other batsman topped 1000 runs. His 344 was also the first triple-century in first-class cricket.
• Between 1868 and 1880, he topped the first-class averages 10 times, including seven times straight till 1874. Between 1868 and 1876, he scored 54 first-class hundreds; the next highest didn't even manage 10.
• In the decade 1871 to 1880 he averaged 49, a period during which nobody else averaged more than 26 or scored even a third of his runs. He also took 1174 wickets in the 10 years, which was the second-best in the country after Alfred Shaw.
• In 1895, as a 47-year-old Grace reeled off scores of 288, 52, 257, 73 not out, 18 and 169 - the last bringing him 1000 runs before the end of May (the first man to reach that landmark). His 288 was also his 100th century, making him the first player to the milestone.
• Grace played 870 first-class matches in his career, which is the third-highest on the all-time list, after Wilfred Rhodes (1110) and Frank Woolley (978). His tally of 54,211 runs is the fifth-highest, while his haul of 2809 wickets puts him in 10th place.

 

[unam]

Highest run-getters in Tests before 1900
Batsman Tests Runs Average 100s/ 50s
Arthur Shrewsbury 23 1277 35.47 3/ 4
George Giffen 31 1238 23.35 1/ 6
Joe Darling 18 1139 35.59 3/ 4
Alec Bannerman 28 1108 23.08 0/ 8
WG Grace 22 1098 32.29 2/ 5
Syd Gregory 24 1096 28.10 3/ 4
Andrew Stoddart 16 996 35.57 2/ 3
Tom Hayward 15 976 44.36 3/ 3
Ranjitsinhji 12 970 53.88 2/ 6
Percy McDonnell 19 955 28.93 3/ 2

His Test numbers are not all that great............

 

[Ikki]

until 2000 Murli wasn't the Murli but after that he was as good as Warne if not better. can't say anything about other factors (ATG slip fielder and Brilliant cricket brain).

The reason people rate Warne higher than Murli is because of media and he was better to watch than Murli.

BUT THE QUESTIONS IS ]what did he do up until 2000 that he was chosen as one of the cricketers of the century?

Those lists were compiled around 2000 so that answers your question. Murali wasn't even on the lists so I'd imagine he would be if it were compiled now. Back then, Warne was the greatest spinner of all-time or at least the first one comparable with the likes of O'Reilly going back some 50-60 years. Warne came into a game dominated by pace and became arguably the most dangerous bowler of them all in perhaps the best era in terms of the number of ATG bowlers.

Again, spinners like Warne and Murali are incredibly rare. There are maybe only 2 other spinners in cricket history that are really comparable to them - O'Reilly and Grimmett. You'll have great bowling or batting specialists every decade; a great all-rounder possibly every other decade; but a spinner that good is incredibly rare to see.

 

[Pothas]

These lists need more Lillywhite.

Not got a bad average has he

I mean it is almost as good as Philander, he averages about 0.5 right?

 

[wellAlbidarned]

What you basically said was you think Tendulkar can piss higher than Grace and that he has a massive penis, despite the fact you would be arrested for attempting to prove this is the case.

Sig'd.

 

[silentstriker]

Benaud:

Hobbs
Gavaskar
Bradman
Tendulkar
Viv Richards
Imran Khan
Sobers
Gilchrist
Warne
Barnes
Lillee

Not a bad side tbf.

 

[Eds]

Imran batting above Sobers? Really?

 

[Spark]

Why the hell do people bat Imran so high? I've seen him bat above Gilchrist a few times and now Sobers. I mean, he could bat, but really.

 

[GIMH]

Oh AN. Deary me.

 

[silentstriker]

Imran batting above Sobers? Really?

Why the hell do people bat Imran so high? I've seen him bat above Gilchrist a few times and now Sobers. I mean, he could bat, but really.

He didn't pick it in order. He picked two opening batsmen, three middle order, two all rounders, a wicket keeper, a leg spinner, and two fast bowlers.

He'd likely make it Sobers-Gilchrist-Imran-Warne.