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Great Dhoni

Jakester1288

International Regular
I definaetly hope so. He is the right man for the job AFAIC and would do it right.

However anyone who takes a break from test cricket to play ODI cricket doesn't really deserve to captain the test side imo.
 

duffer

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah, that's a very good point. Probably the best candidate to succeed Kumble but we know where his priorities lie.
 

Precambrian

Banned
I definaetly hope so. He is the right man for the job AFAIC and would do it right.

However anyone who takes a break from test cricket to play ODI cricket doesn't really deserve to captain the test side imo.
Huh? Give him a thought guys, the guy's been playing non-stop cricket, both test cricket and one day for 18 months, ever since world cup 07. None in World cricket, according to Cricinfo had to bear such a load for such a long time, don't forget that he led the one day side to Australia and SA for the twenty twenty also. In an age, where players like Tait etc, claim break down just because of pressure, and hardly any international cricket, this guy has been playing in a gruelling schedule under the highest pressure imaginable in international cricket. And he wisely chose himself rest from the test series because he knew he'll be missed relatively least there, due to presence of the big 4 and him not been captain. And he needed to come back refreshed for the one day game, the champions trophy (at that point a surety) and the most important Australian series, followed by England series. This was the right time to take a break, as he would be assured of back up in batting by the seniors. Who knows whether the seniors would be there for the remainin series?
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Huh? Give him a thought guys, the guy's been playing non-stop cricket, both test cricket and one day for 18 months, ever since world cup 07. None in World cricket, according to Cricinfo had to bear such a load for such a long time, don't forget that he led the one day side to Australia and SA for the twenty twenty also. In an age, where players like Tait etc, claim break down just because of pressure, and hardly any international cricket, this guy has been playing in a gruelling schedule under the highest pressure imaginable in international cricket. And he wisely chose himself rest from the test series because he knew he'll be missed relatively least there, due to presence of the big 4 and him not been captain. And he needed to come back refreshed for the one day game, the champions trophy (at that point a surety) and the most important Australian series, followed by England series. This was the right time to take a break, as he would be assured of back up in batting by the seniors. Who knows whether the seniors would be there for the remainin series?
You make some valid points but as seen by the performances of the keepers who took his place it was proven that it was the wrong time for Team India for him to take a break, he was missed a great deal. He could have rested up during the one day series which was on after the Test Series.
 

Precambrian

Banned
You make some valid points but as seen by the performances of the keepers who took his place it was proven that it was the wrong time for Team India for him to take a break, he was missed a great deal. He could have rested up during the one day series which was on after the Test Series.
He was the CAPTAIN of the One Day series. And perhaps the MOST IMPORTANT player in the one day side perhaps only next to Tendulkar. He has more responsibility in the ODI side as compared to the Test side atm. As far as tests are concerned, his role is limited to being a keeper who can bat reasonably well. And he should have thought, "Well, there are two guys with International experience out there waiting for a chance, so let me take some rest, as well give them a chance". I think that's the best decision he could have taken. Besides, a Karthik or a Parthiv in an ODI side? As an afterthought, esp without Tendulkar and Sehwag, and the way Dhoni played and captained, we'd been whitewashed 5-0.

And Dhoni also was almost fatigued, this was also indicated to the selectors that he could not go any further at the end of Asia Cup. So even if he had taken part in the Test series, he would not have been able to give 100% to the team, and knowing the work culture of Dhoni, he won't commit to that.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Right now.. this is a no brainer.. Dhoni is so much ahead of Karthik and Parthiv as a keeper that it is not even funny...


Karthik's batting seems to be falling apart too and Parthiv showed that he has improved zero percent in his time off the international side.. His keeping and batting were just as pathetic as Karthik's in the last test... Dhoni is pretty much the only option for wk/batsman right now for us.....
 

sanga1337

U19 Captain
...Why? Dhoni is a lot more valuble in odi's than he is in tests. In tests he is an average batsman and isn't captain, where as in ODi's he's captain, great batsman and keeper. He is a lot more valuble to India in the odi's than tests so I don't see what the big deal is if he misses out in tests so he can be ready for the odi's
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
I think there is no doubt about Dhoni's unassailable position as India's main wicket keeper batsman and odi captain and surely he will lead them in Tests not to far in the future.

What puts me off from this thread is its title.

Really ?
 
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pskov

International 12th Man
Dhoni is clearly an excellent ODI player, and when one takes into account his very tidy keeping, perhaps the most valuable in the world. In tests he is a good enough keeper that batting at 7 and averaging 30 is perfectly acceptable. I do worry though about a big workload should he be asked to captain the test side, especially since it seems that the big 4 are not going to be around much longer, which will inevitably increase the pressure for him to score runs in tests. It all could be too much.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Dhoni is clearly an excellent ODI player, and when one takes into account his very tidy keeping, perhaps the most valuable in the world. In tests he is a good enough keeper that batting at 7 and averaging 30 is perfectly acceptable. I do worry though about a big workload should he be asked to captain the test side, especially since it seems that the big 4 are not going to be around much longer, which will inevitably increase the pressure for him to score runs in tests. It all could be too much.
Only if that idiot Yuvraj had shown some willingness to take some responsibilty. Instead the BCCI is pampering "the find since Sachin" with crores for doing pyrotechnics in 20-20.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Regarding Dhoni's batting in Tests.

He started with a bang scoring a hundred, a fifty and a near fifty in his first five Tests averaging a fraction under 60 !

Since then he has played another 24 Test matches. Two of them against bangladesh. In the other 22 (besides BD) he averages 28.3 per innings !! That is all his Tests since January 2006 (he made his debut a month earlier) and he never scored another hundred.

Surely, thats no great batting average to talk of.

His keeping has improved of late. He is not a great keeper but he is not as bad as he used to be and there are no great keepers in sight with Karthik showing inconsistency. Thats enough for Dhoni to keep his place in the side but he is not such a dominant player (on the strength of personal performance) in Tests that one can call him an absolute certainty.

He needs to do much better with the bat and in different conditions before that can be established.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Incidentally, since then (after his first and last test century in his fifth Test), 11 Indians have a better average in Tests than Dhoni - which is almost everyone who can bat.

Code:
[B]Player        	 Inns	 NO	 50s	 100s	 HS	 Runs	 Avg	 Ca	 St[/B]
Mohammad Kaif	 7	 2	 1	 1	  *148	 317	 63.40	 2	 0
V Sehwag	 36	 2	 4	 4	  319	 1552	 45.65	 10	 0
S C Ganguly	 42	 3	 9	 3	  239	 1738	 44.56	 12	 0
V V S Laxman	 44	 7	 11	 3	  *112	 1599	 43.22	 24	 0
S R Tendulkar	 40	 4	 8	 4	  *154	 1540	 42.78	 20	 0
R Dravid	 55	 6	 13	 3	  146	 2007	 40.96	 46	 0
G Gambhir	 8	 0	 3	 0	  74	 318	 39.75	 5	 0
W Jaffer	 45	 1	 8	 5	  212	 1683	 38.25	 15	 0
K K D Karthik	 21	 1	 6	 1	  129	 722	 36.10	 17	 1
I K Pathan	 16	 3	 1	 1	  102	 454	 34.92	 2	 0
Yuvraj Singh	 19	 1	 0	 2	  169	 555	 30.83	 13	 0
M S Dhoni	 41	 4	 8	 0	  92	 1121	 30.30	 58	 12
So if nothing else, lets be a bit more conservative with the use of the epithet 'Great', please.
 
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NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
...Why? Dhoni is a lot more valuble in odi's than he is in tests. In tests he is an average batsman and isn't captain, where as in ODi's he's captain, great batsman and keeper. He is a lot more valuble to India in the odi's than tests so I don't see what the big deal is if he misses out in tests so he can be ready for the odi's
I think you've answered your own question. He's more valuable in ODI's then Test that's true, so why on earth would you make a player who is so vital to the team's fortunes in ODI/Twenty20, that he should be the captain for the Test side?
 

sanga1337

U19 Captain
I think you've answered your own question. He's more valuable in ODI's then Test that's true, so why on earth would you make a player who is so vital to the team's fortunes in ODI/Twenty20, that he should be the captain for the Test side?
Im not quite sure what your trying to say here. Are you saying that because he's so good in Odi's it means that he should be captain for tests as well?
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
While it is no one's case (or so I believe) that Dhoni is a GREAT wicket keeper, lets see how he fares in batting amongst the keepers in the world today.

The best batsman amongst the wicket keepers has retired so we have less competition for sure.

Here are the batting figures for all those who can and have kept wickets for their countries for the entire period from Dhoni's Test debut till date.

Code:
[B]Player        	 Inns	 NO	 50s	 100s	 HS	 Runs	 Avg	 Ca	 St[/B]
K C Sangakkara	43	4	8	9	287	2658	68.15	34	2
M J Prior	17	3	4	1	  *126	562	40.14	28	0
Kamran Akmal	34	4	7	3	119	1169	38.97	62	7
K K D Karthik	21	1	6	1	129	722	36.1	17	1
M S Dhoni	47	5	9	1	148	1418	33.76	68	14
M V Boucher	52	6	10	0	85	1351	29.37	118	6
B B McCullum	30	1	5	0	97	804	27.72	59	2
Dhoni the "GREAT" ?

Now I am really lost :huh:

I really thought including those first five Tests of his career might do the trick and I might see the 'light' but ......
 
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NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Im not quite sure what your trying to say here. Are you saying that because he's so good in Odi's it means that he should be captain for tests as well?
Sorry it was worded clearly at all.

I'm just asking why on earth would you make Dhoni captain of the Test side for the reasons I've mentioned previously.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Im not quite sure what your trying to say here. Are you saying that because he's so good in Odi's it means that he should be captain for tests as well?
Rather than about performance, it is to avoid creation of two power centres. With the phasing out of Kumble, and the big 4, the test side would look more or less like the present one day side. And it would need a captain. Other than Dhoni, only Sehwag looks fit for the post, however, it will not look good if Sehwag captains Dhoni in test side, and Dhoni captains Sehwag in the one days.

I will be glad if others could post some solutions also, rather than jus posting, 'na, he should'nt be test captain etc. etc. '
 

ret

International Debutant
You make some valid points but as seen by the performances of the keepers who took his place it was proven that it was the wrong time for Team India for him to take a break, he was missed a great deal. He could have rested up during the one day series which was on after the Test Series.
How would anyone [except may be Nostradamus] have guessed that Karthik was going to perform so badly? infact, it was a good opportunity for Karthik to shine

2ndly, Ind had Parthiv in the reserve and it was bad captaincy by Kumble to persist with Karthik in the 2nd test even after finding out that he was not in the best of form. And as we saw in the series playing out-of-form guys was a norm in that series

Yes, Dhoni was missed but it would have been difficult to say then that would be the case. It's taken that Dhoni is a better keeper than Karthik but such bad performance by Karthik was unimaginable. and it's better to take a break when you feel that you need a break then play series after series without being 100%

It's easy to rant with the benefit of hindsight. In my book, Dhoni did the right thing by not going if he felt that he needed a break .... taking a break when you think you need it rather than continuing like a ass doesn't disqualify anyone from test captaincy
 

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