Graeme Smith warns Panesar of racist abuse

[Langeveldt]

If you're referring to Australia, I'd say it's been blown out of proportion. There'll always be idiots, it's impossible to eradicate them.

So the problem carries on forever then and its all fine?

 

[silentstriker]

If you're referring to Australia, I'd say it's been blown out of proportion. There'll always be idiots, it's impossible to eradicate them.

I don't buy that. That's a defeatist attitude. It simply does not exist in the USA anymore at sporting events, where once it was common. It obviously wasn't impossible here.

And it hasn't been blown out of porportion because small number as they may be, there are obviously enough to cause the Saffies to get pissed.

 

[Dick Rockett]

There seems to be this general belief that if only we can regulate or ban enough things, that bad things will stop happening. They won't. The only way to even approach that state of affairs is to completely remove people's freedom.

I'm not saying that this behaviour is ok, but for goodness sake, it's only a few morons saying stupid things. Aside from causing offence, they aren't actually that much of a problem. When we start getting soccer-style hooligans facing off outside the stadium injuring and killing each other and random passers by, then we have a problem.

Situations where some clown is letting fly with a few racist epithets tend to sort themselves out. Ban the individual from cricket, that's an appropriate response. Telling the majority of well behaved patrons that they can't enjoy a beer in the sun just because some dick called Makhaya Ntini a kaffir is way OTT.

I don't buy that. That's a defeatist attitude. It simply does not exist in the USA anymore at sporting events, where once it was common. It obviously wasn't impossible here.

It's not defeatist at all. I just don't think the situation as it stands requires the reaction it's getting. It's like swatting a fly with a rocket launcher. Anyway, didn't you say yourself earlier that if someone stood up at an Eagles game and started shouting racist slogans that the crowd would lynch him/her? Sounds like a classic example of self-regulation to me.

 

[silentstriker]

It's not defeatist at all. I just don't think the situation as it stands requires the reaction it's getting. It's like swatting a fly with a rocket launcher. Anyway, didn't you say yourself earlier that if someone stood up at an Eagles game and started shouting racist slogans that the crowd would lynch him/her?

Well, if a new guy is at an Eagles game, he's probably a fan of the opposing team anyway, so he's likely to get lynched no matter what. Because the seats are always sold out and you know everyone who seats next to you because they are there game after game and year after year. So you know pretty much everyone in your section. We wouldn't let a racist idiot talk, and if he said something against one of our players, I don't think they'd find his body.

But yes, you are right...and that is because the culture was changed and it wasn't changed by ignoring the problem.

 

[Dick Rockett]

But yes, you are right...and that is because the culture was changed and it wasn't changed by ignoring the problem.

Absolutely. I didn't say we should ignore the problem, I said that banning drink was a stupid idea. IMO, culture change is probably the most powerful tool there is against social problems, without restricting people's freedom.

 

[Anil]

The only way to even approach that state of affairs is to completely remove people's freedom.

freedom to do what is the question...ss brought up a valid point regarding zero tolerance in sports arenas in the u.s for racial abuse...how can you say that's over the top or completely out of the question?

 

[Dick Rockett]

freedom to do what is the question...ss brought up a valid point regarding zero tolerance in sports arenas in the u.s for racial abuse...how can you say that's over the top or completely out of the question?

Well firstly, my comment about curtailing freedom was more general. Secondly, I did not advocate tolerating racist behaviour. What I did say is that "initiatives" such as banning alcohol - which Langeveldt suggested - are kneejerk and naive because they punish the majority of people who behave, they won't work because people who are predisposed to making rascist comments probably don't need booze to think the way they do, and in this case it's a way OTT response to a minor problem.

This post is really reiterating points I've made clear previously, so I'm not altogether sure what you're getting at.

 

[Burgey]

A fine might work out. Certainly you can already be fined for "rude and unruly behaviour" etc at the cricket, and so if someone was a serious disruption to play they could certainly be ejected and fined a moderate amount. I'd hope application of such punishments would be cautious though. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with someone being fined for shouting "no ball" or anything like that.

Having said that, the main advantage of ejection from the ground is that it is entirely up to the ground staff who they allow to remain there. Any other punishments like fines and criminal charges and so on aren't entirely controllable from CA's perspective.

But fines have to be imposed by Courts as well. There are reasonably strong anti-vilifiation laws in Australia as well as anti-Discrimination. The point is to ID the culprits and bring them before the Courts. Considering there's an automatic $10,000 fine for pitch invading and a life ban from the ground, they should be able to do something, but it will take some members of the crowd to dob in others to get it done. Pitch invaders announce themselves, these putzs don't.

 

[pasag]

Well firstly, my comment about curtailing freedom was more general. Secondly, I did not advocate tolerating racist behaviour. What I did say is that "initiatives" such as banning alcohol - which Langeveldt suggested - are kneejerk and naive because they punish the majority of people who behave, they won't work because people who are predisposed to making rascist comments probably don't need booze to think the way they do, and in this case it's a way OTT response to a minor problem.

Couldn't agree more. Spot on.

 

[Slow Love™]

How come this racist minority of Australia is always so vocal? Can nothing be done to get these jerks to keep their mouths shut so that the majority can enjoy the best cricket from the best cricketers?

If you read through the thread, you will see that Cricket Australia have introduced tough new measures to deal with this kind of behaviour, including improved CCTV surveillance, use of SMS for the purposes of members of the crowd to report abusive behaviour, and spectators indulging in this behaviour are going to be ejected from the ground, with possible longer bans for repeat offenders.

So, something is being done, but you have to give it time to make an impact.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Oh man, there's going to be some havoc caused with that SMS thing.

And I wonder to what extent people do this stuff because they know it'll get attention from the papers?

 

[Slow Love™]

Oh man, there's going to be some havoc caused with that SMS thing.

And I wonder to what extent people do this stuff because they know it'll get attention from the papers?

Yeah, I made that crack earlier (about the SMS thing), but apparently all it's supposed to result in initially is having some surveillance target the area concerned, rather than dragging some guy off 'cause someone sent a prank SMS about him.

As to the attention-getting, it might happen, though I doubt it. It's usually just inhibitions dropping and people showing their worst side. If it's for attention though, it can be a double-edged sword with the possibility for humiliation. Remember the Richmond spitter?

 

[shortpitched713]

Considering there's an automatic $10,000 fine for pitch invading and a life ban from the ground

****e that's stiff. Gonna have to change my plans for this winter's Ashes then.

 

[C_C]

I dunno if this has been mentioned here before or not but i heard recently a pretty good idea on how to deal with issues like these : Ban the ground against which complaints came for a full calendar year from any sort of international engagement.
For the viewers - well too bad, you'll just have to attend state games or watch 'one extra' game on TV (whats one more when you watch so many on TV anyways?).
Wouldnt disrupt travellers - especially if a time-delayed ban is enforced ( eg : Ban for 1 year applicable after the next one or two intl. matches are done) because they will have enough time to cancel or reschedule.
Plus it will give the authorities- who clearly do not give a hoot on dealing with the situation (and crowd behaviour IS the domain of the relevant national cricket board) more incentive to do so.
I dont care if its racism, hooliganism, torching stuff, pelting stuff or whatever- if the incident occurs and is not quickly brought under control (ie, right then and there on the spot) the ground shall be suspended from international priviledges for one year- higher penalty for repeat offence.
Though i'd like to leave pitch-invasion out of the list of 'badness'. Personally,i dont mind pitch invasions- its done in good faith and as an act of celebration, not a specifically malicious affair. Ofcourse, it can jeopardise player safety but given how many pitch invasions have occured and how few players/fans have ever been injured from it, i see no reason to regulate against it.

End of the day, racism and these kind of hooliganism has no place in cricket.If words arnt enough, further action must be taken. And going to a cricket match is a priviledge, not a right.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Thing is this keeps happening again and again. I know these are just some sections of the crowd but this wouldn't happen in any other cricketing nation in the world. Pretty poor stuff..

Soccer seems to be played in some of the other cricketing nations and it happens there.

 

[PY]

spofta, that kind of racist, mindless idiocy isn't acceptable on this forum or anywhere else I'd hope.

First and final warning.

 

[honestbharani]

If you read through the thread, you will see that Cricket Australia have introduced tough new measures to deal with this kind of behaviour, including improved CCTV surveillance, use of SMS for the purposes of members of the crowd to report abusive behaviour, and spectators indulging in this behaviour are going to be ejected from the ground, with possible longer bans for repeat offenders.

So, something is being done, but you have to give it time to make an impact.

yeah, I understand that but it is just frustrating to see this happen so many times now.

 

[Jono]

Remember the Richmond spitter?

Scum. Channel 9 made him wish he never did that.

Made me disgusted to be a Tiger supporter that day.

 

[Nishant]

soory guys...but can't start a new thread for some reason! Anyway, i though this would fit in with this thread quite nicely;

I'm the captain of my cricket team and the coach has asked me to make a tough decision! One of our best batsman was introduced to a new player who is slightly younger but has good potential. The good batsman shouted out that the new guy shouldn't play crciket because he's a jew!

I think that's extremely rude and racist....but should i kick a batsman who has averaged over 50 last season and won plenty of matches for us, or should i keep him on and ignore everything...keep in mind that the new guy isn't particulary happy with what happened!

I think i should kick him out...but its not that easy....any advice?

 

[pasag]

Nope, don't kick him out. Try educating him. Send him to a Holocaust centre/ museum or something similar. Anyways, that's only if it was meant seriously, if it was just a poor joke, a slap on the wrist should suffice.