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Giles retires

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
You hear people saying "it should" ATT, but the fact is it's an outdated stereotype which almost never occurs any more. Some pitches help spinners more as the game goes on (and some less) but rare is the wicket that starts offering little to nothing and ends-up offering something considerable.
 

Craig

World Traveller
For myself, I do agree with with comments made by others and by himself that he got the most out of himself as a cricketer, and I guess I first took serious notice of him was on the 00/01 tour of Pakistan were he took 17 wickets for 24.11 (I can't tell you what the s/r was because CI doesn't list it) and he did bowl well IMO. The Damien Martyn ball in the 05 Ashes and the one he got out Brian Lara at Lords in 2004 to get his 100th Test wicket. For a guy who can play spin brilliantly, it was an execellent ball.

Would be fitting if Marc did reappear for this one since he was one of Giles' biggest defenders on most occasions then not.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Do you get to see much county cricket?
Sounds like a no. Can't see how England won so many games with the poor batsmen being produced. Faulty argument there.
The strength of your domestic competition is based on the depth you have below your national team, not the top six batsmen that play in that side. Im sure most people would recoginse that most county sides have 3-4 decent batsmen max. When you have guys like Andy Bichel batting at 6-7 it kind of tells you something about depth in sides.
 

DaViet

Cricket Spectator
While I didn't like him as a bowler, the overall package was decent. He must of been really good at club level, but at international, compare him over Panesar is almost unfair...wait a sec..i didnt just say that...they both need to fuse some how to get the perfect spinner who can field, bowl and bat!
 

iamdavid

International Debutant
The strength of your domestic competition is based on the depth you have below your national team, not the top six batsmen that play in that side. Im sure most people would recoginse that most county sides have 3-4 decent batsmen max. When you have guys like Andy Bichel batting at 6-7 it kind of tells you something about depth in sides.
Andrew Bichel was picked at number 7 for Australia in a test match in 2003, he's a better batsman than you may estimate.
 

Steulen

International Regular
His also batted at No 11 for Queensland, but generally his a 8 or 9 batsmen at best.
Other than him not being a slow bowler, I'd say Andy Bichel is about the closest you could get to Ashely Giles without actually being Ashley Giles. Dependable and versatile, occasionally brilliant, but normally one of the least fancied members of a side.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Other than him not being a slow bowler, I'd say Andy Bichel is about the closest you could get to Ashely Giles without actually being Ashley Giles. Dependable and versatile, occasionally brilliant, but normally one of the least fancied members of a side.
He was a far better bowler though, especially if you look at the back end of his career. He just had a lot more competition. In another era he would have played a lot more Test matches and been seen as one Australia top seamers. He could hold a spot on his bowling alone, regardless of what he did with the bat. They only batted him at 7, to try 5 bowlers, rather then cus they rated his batting highly.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Other than him not being a slow bowler, I'd say Andy Bichel is about the closest you could get to Ashely Giles without actually being Ashley Giles. Dependable and versatile, occasionally brilliant, but normally one of the least fancied members of a side.
Think Giles' accuracy was superior to Bichel's, TBH (Bichel wasn't always the most reliable around), but apart from that they had much in common.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
He was a far better bowler though, especially if you look at the back end of his career. He just had a lot more competition. In another era he would have played a lot more Test matches and been seen as one Australia top seamers. He could hold a spot on his bowling alone, regardless of what he did with the bat. They only batted him at 7, to try 5 bowlers, rather then cus they rated his batting highly.
Don't agree, Bichel wasn't a Test-class bowler IMO. He's probably rather better than the David Gilberts and Tony Dodemaides of this World but he's not a patch on the Reiffels, Flemings, Gillespies, Hugheses etc. and certainly not on the McDermotts, Reids and McGraths.
 

DaViet

Cricket Spectator
i agree he wasnt test quality, first class level is a different story, he along with Kasper had the first class game to themselves, fine tuning their art very well, bichel had his best and worst really, i wont forget the 5/14 he got, they needed that soo badly
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Don't agree, Bichel wasn't a Test-class bowler IMO. He's probably rather better than the David Gilberts and Tony Dodemaides of this World but he's not a patch on the Reiffels, Flemings, Gillespies, Hugheses etc. and certainly not on the McDermotts, Reids and McGraths.
Post 2000 Bichel was on par with the Reiffels and Hugheses IMO, easierly Test Class:
- 56 wickets @ 28, s/r 50
 

DaViet

Cricket Spectator
on par? almost around the late 90's, Reifel & Fleming easily took the 3rd/4th seamer spot

i'd say bichel was better than nicholson and jo angel at that time however
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
on par? almost around the late 90's, Reifel & Fleming easily took the 3rd/4th seamer spot

i'd say bichel was better than nicholson and jo angel at that time however
Meh late 90s Reffiel and Fleming were at the peak, well maybe earlier. But im talking about when Bichel was at his peak Post 2000.
 

DaViet

Cricket Spectator
there were bracken and *shudder* brad williams too though who i remember one time during a one day tour in india, were said to be the future fast bowling pairing instead of mcgrath and gillespie, how wrong the commentator was!
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Post 2000 Bichel was on par with the Reiffels and Hugheses IMO, easierly Test Class:
- 56 wickets @ 28, s/r 50
That was only from 14 Tests, though, 4 of which were against two of the most wretched and downtrodden sides in history (WI in 2000\01 and Pak in 2002\03). He offered little against England in 2002\03, West Indies in 2003 or against India in 2003\04.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
That was only from 14 Tests, though, 4 of which were against two of the most wretched and downtrodden sides in history (WI in 2000\01 and Pak in 2002\03). He offered little against England in 2002\03, West Indies in 2003 or against India in 2003\04.
The old taking out someone best performance and a player looks poor. 8-) Lets do that to Giles, or wait they were the only matches he played on so-called useful pitches.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
If there's a good reason to treat something as separate (not take it out - treat it as separate) I'll do it. Got any reason I shouldn't (other than "you've got to treat every game exactly the same")?
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
If there's a good reason to treat something as separate (not take it out - treat it as separate) I'll do it. Got any reason I shouldn't (other than "you've got to treat every game exactly the same")?
Cus those West Indies and Pakistan side were still Test standard, there have been plenty worse sides in World Cricket. If they weren't Test Standard then fair enough. Got no real problem if those sides were below Test Standard, not just below average.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I'm not saying they weren't Test standard, they clearly were. However, taking wickets against them wasn't all that notable if you can't also do it against better sides, and Bichel couldn't (as I mentioned - he subsequently failed against England, West Indies at home and India).
 

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