Garry Sobers v Imran Khan,Test Cricket:Poll

[Adorable Asshole]

Lol at making an issue of Sobers record against NZ. He probably didn't cared because they were minnows.

Would reply to other posts about Sobers batting position later.

 

[Coronis]

>No weakness in record
>Points out glaring weakness in record
>Oh no that doesn’t count

 

[Slifer]

>No weakness in record
>Points out glaring weakness in record
>Oh no that doesn’t count

It counts but if that's held against him, give him his flowers then for destroying India and Pakistan. And even with the NZ setback, Gary still averaged damn near 60. Imagine if he had a middling record vs NZ.

 

[kyear2]

Were NZ yours an addendum to Aus tours back then? Going from the Caribbean to NZ without visiting Aus at all can't have been a thing, I imagine. Maybe he just had a cbf attitude to the NZ series after playing Aus which was a big deal.

I honestly wondered about this as well, but never checked.

 

[h_hurricane]

When Sobers toured NZ for the first time, he was a teenager. He had a poor tour, but was poor against everyone those days, not just NZ.

When he toured NZ the second time, it was after the long tour to Australia where he scored a lot of runs and bowled close to 200 overs. Understandably very jaded, should have skipped the tour probably.

It is fair to count his record against NZ as a minor hole in his record. Won't read too much into it though.

 

[subshakerz]

imo he has a noticeable weakness against Kiwis. Can’t even call it sample size, 12/93 tests is pretty decent.

Failing against a minnow is irrelevant

 

[smash84]

Failing against a minnow is irrelevant

Then succeeding against minnows shouldn't count either, and Pakistan and India were minnows back then as well.

 

[shortpitched713]

imo he has a noticeable weakness against Kiwis. Can’t even call it sample size, 12/93 tests is pretty decent.

Home umpires

 

[peterhrt]

During the 1950s and 1960s Sobers played more Test innings in New Zealand than any visiting batsman apart from Cowdrey.

Of the 48 visiting batsmen to score 100 runs or more, Sobers' average of 15.10 is the lowest.

 

[subshakerz]

Then succeeding against minnows shouldn't count either, and Pakistan and India were minnows back then as well.

India and Pakistan were weak teams but not minnows.

 

[smash84]

India and Pakistan were weak teams but not minnows.

They were minnows. Pakistan had literally nobody of note in the 1960s except maybe Hanif in some parts of it and maybe Fazal? CBF looking up the dates they retired but it was proper minnow. There really wasn't a great first class system either. So not sure how you differentiate between a week team or minnow.

 

[subshakerz]

They were minnows. Pakistan had literally nobody of note in the 1960s except maybe Hanif in some parts of it and maybe Fazal? CBF looking up the dates they retired but it was proper minnow. There really wasn't a great first class system either. So not sure how you differentiate between a week team or minnow.

Sobers played Fazal in his games against Pakistan.

India is more of a marginal case, but did they have a worldclass spinner in Subhash Gupte in a series against Sobers.

Minnows to me means that record shouldn't really count.

 

[kyear2]

During the 1950s and 1960s Sobers played more Test innings in New Zealand than any visiting batsman apart from Cowdrey.

Of the 48 visiting batsmen to score 100 runs or more, Sobers' average of 15.10 is the lowest.

What's your theory?

 

[smash84]

Sobers played Fazal in his games against Pakistan.

India is more of a marginal case, but did they have a worldclass spinner in Subhash Gupte in a series against Sobers.

Minnows to me means that record shouldn't really count.

You seem to be suggesting that having even a single good player in a team means that they are not minnows. Which is not the case.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Pakistan literally won a test series against West indies. How were they minnows?

 

[smash84]

Pakistan literally won a test series against West indies. How were they minnows?

Zimbabwe also beat Pakistan in Pakistan in the 90s. They were still considered minnows.

 

[peterhrt]

What's your theory?

In the 1956 series a young Sobers batted mainly in the top three and was run out a couple of times.

In 1969 New Zealand had a decent seam attack and drew the series. Dick Motz and Bruce Taylor were good bowlers in the right conditions, and Cunis could be useful. Sobers simply had a poor series against them. Virtually everyone has them, Sobers fewer than most.

 

[ataraxia]

Sobers' failures being concentrated against us Kiwis actually improves how I rate him, and I don't get how everyone seems to think everything would be much happier if he just averaged 55 on the nose everywhere. It's not like it actually reflects a weakness [@trundler] that he really struggled v. 120kph dobblers or was simply emotionally distraught by our punching above our weight like some posters on this forum. Analysis by checklist gone mad(der).

 

[Coronis]

lol. Love how this has randomly blown up

Want to first say I never said anything about his NZ record impacting how I rated him (I still have him 3/4 all time). All I did was respond to a post saying his record has no holes at all.

Home umpires

Massive copium here.

He also had a 5 test series against them at home - he scored a century and then 111 runs in his other 7 innings.

Again it doesn’t have a big impact (if any) on how I rate him, but y’all just need to accept he sucked against NZ and his record isn’t “flawless with no holes”

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Failing against a minnow is irrelevant

If West Indies smashed them in all the matches then sure.But New Zealand won 2 test matches including a drawn series.