Future ****Stars**** of Australian Cricket

[Richard]

Bracken is definately a swing bowler. One of his major faults in fact is that when he doesn't get the new ball to move much he's a weak bowler, and he's not very good with the old ball. When he gets swing however he is quite lethal, as evidenced by his 7/4 and 6/20 odd performances this year in the Pura Cup, utilising brutal swing. If you can find the Wade Seccombe dismissal in the first innings of the Pura Cup final this year you will see what I mean, that ball was heading to first slip before it swung around a corner and trapped Seccombe in front. Magnificent bowling.

I'll try, but it's hard to get hold of Pura Cup footage.
You seem to have posted this post as if I was saying Bracken couldn't possibly be a swing-bowler; I was saying that he was always a swing-bowler, just before this current season he wasn't a particularly good one.

 

[Richard]

is that in reference to me, or aussie?

aussie.
I should probably have quoted both posts to make that a bit clearer, but of course... I can't edit it, can I?

 

[Richard]

And as for Richard`s view on Harvey... what the!?! Stats dont tell the whole story mate! And if you truly believe they do, check out his One-Day bowling record! Up there with the best in the world!

Up there with the best in The World!
Domestically it's good, yes, but internationally it's crap! Harvey is one of the most overrated bowlers ever, especially over here, where people talk as if he were a ODI all-time great, when in fact he's never been a regular in Australia's side and with good reason.

 

[Richard]

I think he might just miss out on the Ashes tour, cus u have Lee and Tait in front of him, plus Watson. I don't see them taking 6 pace bowlers (seven if u inculde Watson).

Put it this way: as an Englishman I'd sure prefer us to be facing Watson and Tait than Bracken!

 

[Richard]

Ian Harvey One-Day:

414 wickets in 266 matches! A bowling average of under 21, a strike-rate of under 30 and a bowling economy of just 4.3!
One in every Fourteen overs he bowls is a maiden!

Not bad!

4.3 isn't remarkable, y'know, it's just good (given that he usually bowls 4, sometimes even 5, overs at the death).
As for the maidens bit - forget it, 9-0-25-2 is far better than 9-3-27-2.
All that matters is the overall economy-rate, not individual overs.

 

[marc71178]

4.3 isn't remarkable, y'know, it's just good (given that he usually bowls 4, sometimes even 5, overs at the death).

If someone bowls half his overs in the death, then 4.3 is a superb economy rate to have.

 

[Mr Casson]

4.3 isn't remarkable, y'know, it's just good (given that he usually bowls 4, sometimes even 5, overs at the death).
As for the maidens bit - forget it, 9-0-25-2 is far better than 9-3-27-2.
All that matters is the overall economy-rate, not individual overs.

Statistically yes, if you ignore things like pressure build-ups created by not being able to score. It's not uncommon for batsmen to settle for a single or two off a good bowler's over and look to do the damage at the other end. When one end is completely shut down, however, that's when batsmen panic and are prone to mistakes.

Also, how often do you see batsmen get out off the last ball a maiden over? Batsmen don't like being concreted to the crease... but managing a few singles off every over doesn't build up any pressure at all.

 

[Mr Casson]

And how many other times has it happened twice, or even once, in a Test?
I don't know what the average is, but I do know that it's not at all unusual for a 3 or 4 Test-series to go by with just one or two run-outs.

But you don't know the average. All you're going on is that you can't remember many.

 

[Nate]

Up there with the best in The World!
Domestically it's good, yes, but internationally it's crap! Harvey is one of the most overrated bowlers ever, especially over here, where people talk as if he were a ODI all-time great, when in fact he's never been a regular in Australia's side and with good reason.

Yes, his One-Day bowling record is up there with the best of the best. Thats what I said. You dont get a bowling average of 21 by being crap...

 

[Mister Wright]

MacGill is extremely poor,

That is a bit of a rough call.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Tait may have done well in The Pura Cup but he did rubbish in The Championship and whether or not that's a lower level of competition, if you can do well in the good stuff and poorly in the poor stuff that doesn't suggest you're much of a bowler.

interesting logic. while i'd say that it isn't a good thing to perform worse in the poor stuff, i don't see how you can write someone off as not up to class.

interesting to note that tait was stuck in 3rd grade club cricket for a long time, and was never a gun bowler back in the national underage carnivals. you can probably make two deductions from that:

1. he rises to the occasion when pressed against the best, or..
2. he needs everything to be in his favour to take wickets.

i'd suggest that it might be a mixture of the two. also, i heard that during tait's stint over in england, he had a lot of no-ball trouble, and his run-up was all over the place. is that true?

and coz i can't be bothered waiting for an answer, if it is true, then surely the english would know from the harmison experience that a lil period where a few things go wrong doth not make a player.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

i'd suggest that it might be a mixture of the two. also, i heard that during tait's stint over in england, he had a lot of no-ball trouble, and his run-up was all over the place. is that true?

Yes, no-balls and wides. Judging Tait on the Duhram stint is ridiculous, the kid bowled about a dozen overs in his whole time at the club, then came back to Australia and took 60 wickets @ 20. Obviously the 10 back-to-back solid games is a hell of a lot more relevant to his ability than a dozen overs where he had massive technical issues and bowled garbage. If he goes back he will do better, without doubt.

 

[aussie]

It is indeed going to be incredibly tough, almost impossible, should Australia be at full-strength. But if their attack were to contain Lee, MacGill and Tait we'd have one hell of a chance.
MacGill is extremely poor, and while English pitches in August and September are more spin-friendly than earlier, they're still not generally that helpful. Even if they were, we all know MacGill is more than capable of wasting spin-friendly conditions.
Tait may have done well in The Pura Cup but he did rubbish in The Championship and whether or not that's a lower level of competition, if you can do well in the good stuff and poorly in the poor stuff that doesn't suggest you're much of a bowler. And his Championship stint will be far more important than his Pura Cup one, because this series is in England, not Australia.

hahaha, come on rich u are always underestimating Lee, look mate if he continues bowling the way he has bowled of late and maintains his form during the Natwest series & Natwest challenge & gets the nod over Kaspa for the first test i dont think our batsmen will be so joyous has you are, and how can you say that MacGilla is extemely poor i agree that he is capable of wasting it becuase he not has accurate has the great Shane Wrane but then who is, lets check it out MacGilla has fair success in the sub-continent in pakistan in 1998 when warne had that injury he filled warne's boots quite well with 15 wickets in that 3 test series he didn't really do much in the Sri Lanka tour in 2004 but again it was hollywood who took all the wickets so their wasn't much Stuart could do but support also quite recently in the SCG test on that spin friendly wicket he was MOM, and a few years ago in Barbados on a ptich that Steve Waugh has the worst pitch he has played on in his carrer, that pitch became a real turner and he took 9 wickets in that match and was MOM so i think you should rethink that statement. While i agree on that last point on tait that even though he has done very well in the Pura Cup his the conditions in England are differnt & thats where the series is being played. But look mate he barely had two games over here which he hardly bowled much so thats not enough to judge whether he is good in our conditons or not, i'm pretty sure if tait gets a full season over here anytime in the future based on his Performances in the Pura Cup (which has i said before is the most toughest & most competitive domestic competition in the world) i wont be surprised if he ran havoc on the county circuit

 

[Neil Pickup]

Paragraphs, please...

 

[Neil Pickup]

Yes, no-balls and wides. Judging Tait on the Duhram stint is ridiculous, the kid bowled about a dozen overs in his whole time at the club, then came back to Australia and took 60 wickets @ 20. Obviously the 10 back-to-back solid games is a hell of a lot more relevant to his ability than a dozen overs where he had massive technical issues and bowled garbage. If he goes back he will do better, without doubt.

There were plenty of no-ball issues, but he did end up going at 8 an over regardless.

 

[marc71178]

lets check it out MacGilla has fair success in the sub-continent in pakistan in 1998 when warne had that injury he filled warne's boots quite well with 15 wickets in that 3 test series

15 whole wickets in a 3 Test series? (!)

Even Giles took 17 in 3 games in Pakistan.

 

[Mister Wright]

15 whole wickets in a 3 Test series? (!)

Even Giles took 17 in 3 games in Pakistan.

Was it off the same amount of overs?

 

[Son Of Coco]

It is indeed going to be incredibly tough, almost impossible, should Australia be at full-strength. But if their attack were to contain Lee, MacGill and Tait we'd have one hell of a chance.
MacGill is extremely poor, and while English pitches in August and September are more spin-friendly than earlier, they're still not generally that helpful. Even if they were, we all know MacGill is more than capable of wasting spin-friendly conditions.
Tait may have done well in The Pura Cup but he did rubbish in The Championship and whether or not that's a lower level of competition, if you can do well in the good stuff and poorly in the poor stuff that doesn't suggest you're much of a bowler. And his Championship stint will be far more important than his Pura Cup one, because this series is in England, not Australia.

You can indeed take less wickets at a lower level of cricket if you're simply bowling too well - however, given what we've heard of Tait's performance with no ball problems etc etc this was plainly not the case.

Are you suggesting that England are poor and therefore Tait would be useless? Because if England are good and you only do well in the good stuff the surely Tait would be useful!?

 

[aussie]

15 whole wickets in a 3 Test series? (!)

Even Giles took 17 in 3 games in Pakistan.

so, thats should prove to richard that MaCGill can be effective in conditions that assist him, and talking about Gilo goin off my memory of both those series i'm pretty sure Giles bowled a lot more overs than MaCGill in both their respective series in Pakistan

 

[Neil Pickup]

MacGill - 15 wickets @ 27.46 in 127.4 overs - SR 51.0, Econ 3.22
Giles - 17 wickets @ 24.11 in 182.0 overs - SR 64.2, Econ 2.25