PhoenixFire
International Coach
May I ask why Gangadeep Singh hasn't played any Test matches? He has a bloody good FC record, and looks to be a more than decent bowler, especially in this time of need for Indian pace bowling.
Lack of pace? Don't know how Bose made it in that case ...May I ask why Gangadeep Singh hasn't played any Test matches? He has a bloody good FC record, and looks to be a more than decent bowler, especially in this time of need for Indian pace bowling.
Until a few years ago, Bose wasn't even the best seamer in Bengal; SS Paul was the man in the spotlight. Bose has hardly been awesome for "quite a while". Once again, Bose lacks pace and his home ground is a greentop (Gagandeep's, as well?). Just trying to think of reasons to explain the Indian selectors' decisions ... sometimes, it just isn't possible.Maybe Indian selectors don't get to see the players enough?
Bose has had awesome bowling stats in FC cricket for quite a while, yet the Indian selectors seem to have no confidence in him.
Not against Test class batsmen.Lack of pace is a very stupid reason, if you are faster than 120kph (which I have heard both Bose and G Singh are), you are fast enough to be a medium pace bowler. If you can succeed as a medium pace bowler in India, surely you can succeed anywhere.
1) Pace does matter. Look at Syed Rasel and Irfan Pathan. Really, Ganguly isn't too far from 120 kph - do we really need another Ganguly leading the attack?Lack of pace is a very stupid reason, if you are faster than 120kph (which I have heard both Bose and G Singh are), you are fast enough to be a medium pace bowler. If you can succeed as a medium pace bowler in India, surely you can succeed anywhere.
Surely he is not outpacing any domestic batsman with his pace, but he is still getting wickets.Not against Test class batsmen.
I have just started to realise this, but he still has to succeed in away games too to have such good stats.adharcric said:2) Get over the impression that India only has flat tracks and dust bowls. Punjab and Bengal, for example, often prepare seamer-friendly tracks IIRC.
Trueadharcric said:3) Bit of a gap between facing Haryana/Karnataka and a test side. That said, Gagandeep should at least get a shot in the A team - an average of 20 can't mean nothing.
I doubt he is outpacing them, but that kind of pace, even with great accuracy and movement, will not allow him to suceed at Test level. You do need to be reasonably quick to survive as a specialist seam bowler in the Test arena otherwise you will find yourself as fodder for good batsmen.Surely he is not outpacing any domestic batsman with his pace, but he is still getting wickets.
How fast exactly do you think he is? Have you seen him bowl? Anyone who can bowl at 125km/h plus is capable of being a test seamer, providing they tick all the other boxes. Obviously pace helps, but if GS is accurate as hell, gets heaps of movement and is a thinking bowler, he'd do perfectly fine at test level, especially given the standard of some of the other bowlers currently.I doubt he is outpacing them, but that kind of pace, even with great accuracy and movement, will not allow him to suceed at Test level. You do need to be reasonably quick to survive as a specialist seam bowler in the Test arena otherwise you will find yourself as fodder for good batsmen.
I haven't seen him bowl, no. I can only assume that by the way some people talk about him as being medium pace is that he will be in the low-mid 120's which IMO isn't fast enough unless you are more accurate than McGrath, which I seriously doubt he is.How fast exactly do you think he is? Have you seen him bowl? Anyone who can bowl at 125km/h plus is capable of being a test seamer, providing they tick all the other boxes. Obviously pace helps, but if GS is accurate as hell, gets heaps of movement and is a thinking bowler, he'd do perfectly fine at test level, especially given the standard of some of the other bowlers currently.
Tbh, I think people are just assuming GS is that slow because he isn't getting picked. I've seen no evidence at all to suggest he actually is, other than assumptions.I haven't seen him bowl, no. I can only assume that by the way some people talk about him as being medium pace is that he will be in the low-mid 120's which IMO isn't fast enough unless you are more accurate than McGrath, which I seriously doubt he is.
Joginder plays for Haryana, whose State Board is one of the worst-run in the country. They play most of their matches in three different grounds, including one that's recently set up and one that's been out of action for over a decade. A lot of his wickets came against Tier II teams, but he used to gobble them in every match, rather than pinch a few. He even took it forward against the Tier I teams, taking out chunks even as repeated batting failures had his team relegated to Tier II.On the subject, does Joginder Sharma also have a seamer friendly home ground because his FC bowling is superb.
Um, Irfan Pathan, if he had accuracy, would still have been a fine fifth bowler at 75mph.1) Pace does matter. Look at Syed Rasel and Irfan Pathan.
Ah, but he does well even in flat track paradises (he'd have to, in order to keep average that low. Also, look at the number of overs he bowls..no Munaf Patel type conditioning problem either.adharcric said:2) Get over the impression that India only has flat tracks and dust bowls. Punjab and Bengal, for example, often prepare seamer-friendly tracks IIRC.
A teams are BS. Obviously there is a difference, but First Class records are still the best and most important indicators of whether someone will be a success at the Test level.adharcric said:3) Bit of a gap between facing Haryana/Karnataka and a test side. That said, Gagandeep should at least get a shot in the A team - an average of 20 can't mean nothing.
Not really. He would need extraordinary skill to be a force in test cricket at 75 mph. We aren't talking about 5th bowlers but strike bowlers. Rasel? Hell, even Bracken to a degree.silentstriker said:Um, Irfan Pathan, if he had accuracy, would still have been a fine fifth bowler at 75mph.
Certainly not disputing that. Just telling Manee (IIRC) that India has some greentops and Gagandeep's home ground is one of them, I think. Doesn't mean he isn't a good bowler.silentstriker said:Ah, but he does well even in flat track paradises (he'd have to, in order to keep average that low. Also, look at the number of overs he bowls..no Munaf Patel type conditioning problem either.
A-level cricket is a notch just below international cricket. Obviously, consistent performances in first-class cricket should get you noticed, but A-level cricket provides exposure to foreign conditions and ensures that you didn't get away against poor oppositions in first-class cricket. A-level cricket is also the best place to try out young prospects who have first-class experience but not enough for test cricket (say, someone like Chawla or VRV). Quite importantly, the Indian selectors will pay a lot of attention to big performers at that level. Since we're talking about a call-up for Gagandeep, that does matter.silentstriker said:A teams are BS. Obviously there is a difference, but First Class records are still the best and most important indicators of whether someone will be a success at the Test level.