Future of fast bowling in India

[quick4mindia]

Hi all,
this post is to stimulate thinking of all the well wishers of team india (although comments are welcome from all cricket fans)
i was waiting eagerly for the 6th ODI bet India and England. More so because two of the India's most touted fast bowlers were playing in tht game. My expectations from VRV Singh was that he would come with all cylinders firing and bowl the fastest any Indian bowler has ever bowled.
It was a let down (a big one) despite running in as hard as he could he never crossed 138 KMPH mark. (Even Sreesanth, RP and Agarkar cross 140 K quite regularly) On top of that he was as wayward as any rookie could be @150KMPH. i just thanked god that he was not bowling at 150 that day.
After such a big let down i think even Abid Nabi (the third indian assumed to be bowling fast) could be a 135 -140 K bowler.
It seems we still haven't found answer to our fast bowling worries or have just learned to be content with 135K bowlers and call them genuine quicks

 

[Jono]

Indians have begun overrating pace immensely. Its sad to see.

Give me Pathan, by a long way at the moment, over any other ODI bowler in India.

Sreesanth and Patel obviously haven't played too many games and have bowled on a few tracks which are pretty tough to begin your career with (particularly Sree santh), whilst RP Singh had a great start to his career but has fallen off a bit. VR Singh had one match so I won't judge him yet, but he was disappointing.

I just try and ignore all the hype here regarding the pace of players. Pathan has received so much criticism here for his pace, and fair play since his pace is far too slow in test cricket, but in ODI cricket its perfectly fine.

 

[quick4mindia]

Lately i have observed that pathan varies his pace depending on whether the ball is swinging or not. when not swinging he balls near 130K. with a hint of swing he slows down to 120-125K. That is fine. Speaking of bowlers who are not yet masters of swing or seam and rely too much on pitching the ball on the right spot, a bit of pace really adds to the armory. Think of Pathan playing in Aus (where he has a very moderate success) with te ball not swinging an inch. In such conditions fast bowlers become handy.
Unfortunately (for india) in most of the countries the wickets favor the fast bowlers.
In recent Pakistan England series shoaib troubled english batters more than any body else.
Yes the need would always be of an accurate fast bowler. Lee and Bond are doing a good job at that.
Munaf seems to be the pick of the fast bowlers with his pace accuracy and ability to ball good rising deliveries.

 

[open365]

It seems to me like India have a very good fast bowling department.

I really like the look of Sreesanth, he has something about that i think will make him a regular test player when he's older, he can swing and seam it and has decent pace and accuracy so i would like to see him get more games under his belt.

Patel Is a good bowler already with bags and bags of potential when you consider he's only 22(?). He looks quite lethal on his day and he showed against England that he get work up some hefty reverse swing at the end of an innings.

Patel, Sreesanth and Pathan should play as many games as possible together IMO, though i'm not sure what you would do with the spinners then. They could develop into a very good pace attack to go with India's class spinners.

As for the two Singhs, i've only seen one game but the left handed guy looked good but was having an off-day so i can't comment. The right handed guy looked pretty poor to me, but i've only seen about two overs worth

 

[adharcric]

Indians have begun overrating pace immensely. Its sad to see.

Give me Pathan, by a long way at the moment, over any other ODI bowler in India.

Sreesanth and Patel obviously haven't played too many games and have bowled on a few tracks which are pretty tough to begin your career with (particularly Sree santh), whilst RP Singh had a great start to his career but has fallen off a bit. VR Singh had one match so I won't judge him yet, but he was disappointing.

I just try and ignore all the hype here regarding the pace of players. Pathan has received so much criticism here for his pace, and fair play since his pace is far too slow in test cricket, but in ODI cricket its perfectly fine.

Surely I'd take Pathan at the moment too, he is quite a lethal one-day bowler. You're right, pace is being overrated, but there is a reason why it's being "highly rated" in the first place. Chances are, you won't trouble international batsmen too much at 130 kph unless you are very adept with swing, accuracy and variation (ie McGrath, Pollock, now Pathan to a degree). We've already seen Sreesanth and Munaf getting wickets because of the extra burst of pace, but it's their combination of swing to go with the pace that has impressed. I'm not getting excited just because these guys can clock 140, but rather because they're known to be good bowlers who can generate movement and trouble the batsmen. As for Vikram Singh, give him time. He certainly has problems to sort out: I mentioned his no-ball issue after that warm-up match as well. He's not as pathetic as he bowled yesterday, I assure you. The same goes for Abid Nabi: the fact that he can apparently clock 145 (who knows how true that is ...) is awesome because pace does matter usually, but the fact that he impressed VVS Laxman in the nets is even more impressive.

 

[Arjun]

While there may be a lot of disappointment about the three rookie pacers fielded by the Indians, it would be foolish to dismiss them as no-hopers. They are the right raw material, but they're not seasoned. Munaf was playing his second match, and VR Singh, his first. RP Singh has done well in ODI's till this series, and he appears to be a better bowler when the ball is old. He's a very good choice as a change seamer in one-dayers and can even play as a fourth seamer.

While the Indian attack was inexperienced, even their English counterparts were not veterans. The Indian pacers underperformed, and there is no excuse for all those no-balls and wides they bowled in that match. Hopefully they have learnt something from this match. They have it in them to play for India in the future, but the people in charge should groom them properly, rather than take a backward step and go back to Agarkar, Zaheer and Balaji.

 

[deeps]

India really need to make a decision with Ajit Agarkar. He regularly gets whacked all over the park, and then gets replaced, and SOMEHOW manages to find his way back into the team, only for it to happen again.

If he is going to play, give him time (i think hes had more than enough time though), and if not, get rid of him! Why play him over someone like Sreesanth, who has shown so much potential, and talent, and hold him back?!

Of the indian bowlers, i like Sreesanth the most. His attitude towards the game is excellent, and he has good pace (145km/hr when he wants, on a good wicket), and pretty good accuracy and gets good swing and seam. Has had some rotten luck in terms of catching, and has had alot of poor bowling pitches to begin on. Yet he has toiled away relentlessly.

Munaf seems quiet decent, though he seems alot more laid back, and i'm not sure if he will make it in the long term.

VRV Singh i haven't seen enough, i wnot comment

Pathan, I don't think he will be around as india's STRIKE bowler for too much longer. His batting however makes him very handy, and i think he will become first change in the next year or two.

RP Singh is someone they need to work on, he has talent, can bowl extremely well, but is a lil wayward.

My choice would be:

Sreesanth
RP Singh
Pathan

with Munaf being the backup

 

[open365]

My choice would be:

Sreesanth
RP Singh
Pathan

with Munaf being the backup

Everyone knows Munaf > RP Singh !

 

[Sanz]

While there may be a lot of disappointment about the three rookie pacers fielded by the Indians, it would be foolish to dismiss them as no-hopers. They are the right raw material, but they're not seasoned. Munaf was playing his second match, and VR Singh, his first. RP Singh has done well in ODI's till this series, and he appears to be a better bowler when the ball is old. He's a very good choice as a change seamer in one-dayers and can even play as a fourth seamer.

While the Indian attack was inexperienced, even their English counterparts were not veterans. The Indian pacers underperformed, and there is no excuse for all those no-balls and wides they bowled in that match. Hopefully they have learnt something from this match. They have it in them to play for India in the future, but the people in charge should groom them properly, rather than take a backward step and go back to Agarkar, Zaheer and Balaji.

Until last month you were advocating for bringing in fast bowlers like Munaf etc and now that they are in the side, you want them to be dropped in favor of the Crap on Zaheer and Agarkar and an injury prone Balaji ?

May be it has something to do with Munaf's hitting capabilities which left you seriously dissapointed.

 

[adharcric]

Until last month you were advocating for bringing in fast bowlers like Munaf etc and now that they are in the side, you want them to be dropped in favor of the Crap on Zaheer and Agarkar and an injury prone Balaji ?

May be it has something to do with Munaf's hitting capabilities which left you seriously dissapointed.

Maybe you should consider reading the entire post before making an embarrassing comment about it. Arjun said that these young prospects should be groomed and persevered with rather than going back to Zaheer, Agarkar and Balaji. I'm not sure anyone on this forum is so stupid to advocate sticking to the pathetic AA.

 

[adharcric]

Anyone who thinks Pathan will ever bowl first-change is clearly mistaken. He's brilliant with the new ball, especially in ODIs, and you can expect him to take 2 wickets on average in his opening spell ... often starting with the first over itself. His swing, control and accuracy (and now variation) is what makes him the best new-ball bowler India has. Sreesanth also pitches the ball in the corridor of uncertainty consistently (when he's on) and shapes it away, so he should be opening the attack alongside Pathan. VR Singh is another outswing bowler so he should be the reserve opening bowler. RP Singh is well-suited to the first-change role because when he's on, he sticks to that deadly line and length and generates a touch of swing which will do the job; he tries a little too hard with the new ball. Munaf should also be bowling first-change because he bowls more within the stumps as opposed to that off-stump-and-away line and he's a bit of an in-swing bowler. Finally, Munaf and Sreesanth should be bowling at the death. VR Singh works too. Even Harbhajan and Powar are better options at the death than Pathan and RP Singh.

Openers: Pathan + Sreesanth/VRV
First-Change: Munaf/RP Singh

One more thing. People here are jumping to conclusions about these bowlers as if they're veterans who have been given opportunities time and again and have failed. Let's take a look at how old they are for a second.
Irfan Pathan ("experienced" strike-bowler) ..... 21 years old
Sreesanth (out-swing bowler, RFM) ............... 23 years old
RP Singh (line-and-length, first-change) ........ 20 years old
Munaf Patel (in-swing bowler, RFM) .............. 23 years old
VR Singh (out-swing bowler, RFM) ................ 22 years old

Do we have reason to be excited about them? Yes.
Should we be proclaming them as world-class bowlers? Only one of them, in ODIs only, has come close to that thus far.
Should we be dismissing them as class-less bowlers who will never excel? No way in hell.

 

[Richard]

Hi all,
this post is to stimulate thinking of all the well wishers of team india (although comments are welcome from all cricket fans)
i was waiting eagerly for the 6th ODI bet India and England. More so because two of the India's most touted fast bowlers were playing in tht game. My expectations from VRV Singh was that he would come with all cylinders firing and bowl the fastest any Indian bowler has ever bowled.
It was a let down (a big one) despite running in as hard as he could he never crossed 138 KMPH mark. (Even Sreesanth, RP and Agarkar cross 140 K quite regularly) On top of that he was as wayward as any rookie could be @150KMPH. i just thanked god that he was not bowling at 150 that day.
After such a big let down i think even Abid Nabi (the third indian assumed to be bowling fast) could be a 135 -140 K bowler.
It seems we still haven't found answer to our fast bowling worries or have just learned to be content with 135K bowlers and call them genuine quicks

Has VRV ever been clocked before that ODI?
If so, it just shows the fallacy of judging a bowler's speed before he's been clocked, because no-one can really tell until such time.

 

[Richard]

Surely I'd take Pathan at the moment too, he is quite a lethal one-day bowler. You're right, pace is being overrated, but there is a reason why it's being "highly rated" in the first place. Chances are, you won't trouble international batsmen too much at 130 kph unless you are very adept with swing, accuracy and variation (ie McGrath, Pollock, now Pathan to a degree). We've already seen Sreesanth and Munaf getting wickets because of the extra burst of pace, but it's their combination of swing to go with the pace that has impressed. I'm not getting excited just because these guys can clock 140, but rather because they're known to be good bowlers who can generate movement and trouble the batsmen. As for Vikram Singh, give him time. He certainly has problems to sort out: I mentioned his no-ball issue after that warm-up match as well. He's not as pathetic as he bowled yesterday, I assure you. The same goes for Abid Nabi: the fact that he can apparently clock 145 (who knows how true that is ...) is awesome because pace does matter usually, but the fact that he impressed VVS Laxman in the nets is even more impressive.

Has Sreesanth ever been clocked at 140kph or close?
If so, I certainly missed it.

 

[TT Boy]

Has Sreesanth ever been clocked at 140kph or close?
If so, I certainly missed it.

Believe he was flirting with the 140’s in one of the one day games.

 

[TT Boy]

Both Munaf Patel and RP Singh were bowling in the 140’s yesterday against England, must have been a pretty quick track for RP to be bowling around the high 80's.

 

[superkingdave]

Hoggard was clocked in the late 130's

don't think the cameras were very accurate

 

[TT Boy]

Hoggard was clocked in the late 130's

don't think the cameras were very accurate

Yeah, Sajid Mahmood in his last spell, where he looked like death was clocked jogging in at 88 mph.

 

[Richard]

Both Munaf Patel and RP Singh were bowling in the 140’s yesterday against England, must have been a pretty quick track for RP to be bowling around the high 80's.

The track doesn't change the pace the ball comes out of the hand at.
Though you'd expect bowlers to bowl slower in such extreme heat.

 

[Richard]

Hoggard was clocked in the late 130's

don't think the cameras were very accurate

Or there could have been some reason why the ball was coming out of all bowler's hands quicker than usual.
I can't OTTOMH think of any why it might, but I don't really see that it's that likely that the speedometer was inaccurate.

 

[adharcric]

Or there could have been some reason why the ball was coming out of all bowler's hands quicker than usual.
I can't OTTOMH think of any why it might, but I don't really see that it's that likely that the speedometer was inaccurate.

Well the speeds yesterday were a little odd for sure, RP Singh clocked one at 89 mph ... he isn't that fast. As for VR Singh, yes he's been clocked and as for recent cricket, he was regularly (not once in a while, regularly) hitting 88 mph or so. He's supposed to be faster though. As for Sreesanth, he's the slowest of the trio (munaf, vrv, sreesanth) but can easily cross 140 when he wants to. All three are fast-medium, though Munaf and VRV are closer to fast.