Freddie to retire after the Ashes

[SpaceMonkey]

Can just see myself as an old man ranting at younger folk about how much better he was that his stats suggest.

This pretty much sums it up for me. I look forward to it too!

 

[Matt79]

As I also said in CC, awesome bloke and on occasion, on the biggest of all stages, a scrotum shrivellingly awesome player. Warne played as good a series as was conceivable for an individual to play in 05, but there was no real debate to be had that Flintoff was the best player of the series.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

This was always on the cards. England have known for a long time that he couldnt bowl the number of overs a day we kept asking him to do. Each time he got injured you'd hear the ECB go 'we'll look after him and bowl him wisely from now on' then the first sign of trouble / bad bowling from others and he was back in there bowling 20+ overs a day.

 

[91Jmay]

I think Atherton hit it on the head when he said “He has been a very good Test match cricketer - not a great one but a very good one who had a great series in 2005.”

He went on to add, "I suspect he’ll feel absolutely fulfilled". I do hope he is right about that last bit.

I'd agree totally with that statement, i think what puts him in the nearly "great catergory" for me would be the "big moment" potential he had at his best. I.e when England needed an innings he would give it to them (2nd innings Edgbastion) when they needed quick wickets, they got those.

However, unforunatly, to me he is still knocking on the door of the greatness party - rather than inside sipping on a ****tail made by S. Warne or I. Botham.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Merged the threads. As alluded to by Richard (I think, can't be bothered looking back), it's more than just an Ashes issue.

Pretty much repeat everyone else's thoughts: a very good player, capable of being great at times, whose effect on the game wasn't reflected in his numbers.

 

[Steulen]

It's starting to hit me that I'm only gonna see four more appearances from Freddie in the whites, and it's a bitter pill to swallow.

You'd be very lucky to see him play 4 more Tests. He might come through the Lord's Test but I can't see him last all five.

Anyway, here's to the man. I'm not sure I like him, but he definitely is a Character, a damn good bowler every now and then, and in his 2005 heyday he was simply awesome.

 

[bagapath]

freddie has one of the best records for an all-rounder in ODI cricket - way better than kapil, botham, chris cairns and, brace yourself for the big one, the great imran khan himself.

he would be, along with kallis, klusener and jayasuriya, among the top 5 ODI cricketers of all time. too bad his team has not won too many trophies to help this claim,.

 

[kevinpietersen]

Freddie no

We really need him to give up ODI and T20 because we really need him in test lately and especially the Ashes. It is just his knee is so bad he can't cope.
At least he can still play ODI and T20.

 

[Furball]

Would have so much more respect if he gave up ODI and T20 cricket to play more Tests. But that doesn't seem to be the done thing any more.

His body quite clearly isn't up to the demands of being a top level cricketer, given that he hasn't had an injury free home summer since 2005.

Regardless of the fact that obviously giving up Tests for ODIs and T20s is more lucrative for Flintoff, surely in order for an injury ravaged player to prolong a career, it makes more sense to give up the form of the game which is the most demanding physically on his body?

 

[Uppercut]

freddie has one of the best records for an all-rounder in ODI cricket - way better than kapil, botham, chris cairns and, brace yourself for the big one, the great imran khan himself.

he would be, along with kallis, klusener and jayasuriya, among the top 5 ODI cricketers of all time. too bad his team has not won too many trophies to help this claim,.

True, and it's funny how little anyone cares. Maybe he should have been born in another country.

 

[Furball]

This should be in Cricket Chat. It's not just an Ashes issue.

Either way, think someone called this months back actually. Can't say I'm too surprised. And TBH, I don't see that there was all that much alternative. Flintoff hasn't been fit to play a full Test series for yonks and it's not likely he ever will be again. He doesn't, in my view, have enough to offer the Test team any more, though that's obviously unfortunate.

Hopefully he can play the 2011 World Cup and focus all his efforts on ODIs in the meantime. Obviously I don't give a damn whether he plays the IPL or not, but clearly he would do.

Flintoff will be well remembered for his Test brilliance 2003/04-2006, but sadly not all that much apart from that. In the end, he was unable to escape the limitations of his batting and was unable to escape the self-imposed limitations of his bowling.

In the "Johnson vs Flintoff" thread, the question was who would be more dominant over the next three years, I voted Johnson because I said I'd be suprised if Flintoff was still playing in all formats of the game in a year.

edit: also, from the discussion about Flintoff's IPL participation:

If he's fit enough, there's absolutely no reason why Flintoff shouldn't play in the IPL.

2 very important reasons why in my opinion he absolutely should play:

1. He's an average Test bowler. We can debate his merits until the thread is 100 pages long, but even if we only consider his England performances since Sri Lanka 03, he struggles to average under 30. He's a great bowler, but his statistics don't back that up. He is however, a superb limited overs bowler, and has been statisitcally the best death bowler in the world in ODIs over the last 3-4 years. If Flintoff was to give up one form of international cricket due to fitness constraints, then it should be Tests.

2. The next World Cup is in the subcontinent. The IPL represents a great chance for Flintoff to gain experience as to what is needed to be successful as a limited overs bowler in India.

 

[four_or_six]

Always going to think 'how good could he have been?' if it wasn't for injuries. Such a shame, cause he has obviously worked so hard to try to overcome them.

 

[GIMH]

You'd be very lucky to see him play 4 more Tests. He might come through the Lord's Test but I can't see him last all five.

Anyway, here's to the man. I'm not sure I like him, but he definitely is a Character, a damn good bowler every now and then, and in his 2005 heyday he was simply awesome.

I reckon he'll play the lot. The implication in his interview today was that he'd happily take all the painkillers in the world to get through the series - it's his last one so what is there to lose?

If he plays tomorrow, he'll play the rest as well.

 

[aussie]

Rassclath...well ENG come to tour to SA and beyond have to seriously start thinking of playing 4 quicks most of the time , unless the conditons REALLY merits a spinner. Since although Swann is a solid player, i dont trust him has part of a 4-man attack in most conditions.

 

[steds]

Meh. He barely plays these days anyway.

 

[aussie]

Flintoff's awesomeness post 2005 is a myth.



I will remember him not as a great player but as an awesome entertainer.

Its not a myth, that article rather is baseless stats argument.

 

[sledger]

I'm actually quite pleased about it tbh, not in the sense that it's good riddance, but England need to get away from this whole "will Fred be fit or will he not be?!" thing that happens every single series. In the interests of both parties for him to move on and then the team can be built properly, he is relied upon too much anyway in my opinion.

 

[Richard]

Yeah moreorless exactly my thoughts TBH. Only in a minority of cases is a retirement at 31 the best option, but I'd say it undoubtedly is here.

Always going to think 'how good could he have been?' if it wasn't for injuries. Such a shame, cause he has obviously worked so hard to try to overcome them.

Yet the reality is that most of the injuries (all the ankle ones if not this latest knee problem) were caused by something entirely within his power to change, which he was advised to change at 24 (may even have been younger actually), and did not.

That's the biggest disappointment for me.

 

[Richard]

I reckon he'll play the lot. The implication in his interview today was that he'd happily take all the painkillers in the world to get through the series - it's his last one so what is there to lose?

Once you start overdoing it on painkillers you lose more than you gain.

Pain isn't just some random thing - it's there for a reason. If Flintoff is unfit enough, no amount of painkillers will help, nor would it be a good idea for anyone to believe they would.

And then of course there's the fact that more than a set amount of painkillers is dangerous.

 

[GIMH]

Yes, of course, but the medical staff aren't going to administer an abnormal amount to him. I don't doubt, though, that he will take the long-term hit because he is set for life financially and wants more than anything to get through this series.