'Footwork to pace bowlers is a myth' and other hot takes

[wellAlbidarned]

Yeah, but when an offie does it, its natural variation. When seamers do it, somehow its some great skill.

when it's Joe Root doing it yeah people are less likely to call it skill, just like with dibbly dobblers averaging 20 in div 2 county. Have seen very few people not calling Ashwin skillful.

 

[Ali TT]

"The batsman knows if they've hit it" after 15 years of DRS.

Ha, yes I hate this one.

Re the natural variation thing, didn't Benaud tell Warne to basically focus on hitting six leg breaks an over first, then worry about bringing in the variations later on? Adil Rashid used to frustrate Warne in comms because he'd always switch to the googly pretty early on.

 

[Shady Slim]

Yeah just on this, Asif was a good example of someone who seemed to rely primarily on bowling in good areas and let the wobble do the work. His spells in South Africa in '06 were great to watch as he hit the same spot over and over again with different results. I do recall commentators (either in that series or against England) talking about how brilliant he was for luring the batsman to play one shot but then seaming it the other way, when he was really hitting the same spot over and over again and the batsmen were probably just taking a 50/50 chance.

I will say that he was great at using the crease to change the angle of delivery which likely only made him more lethal on lively pitches.

just riffing off this too, something that gets me is when comms are carrying on like wobbleseam’s like this new thing stuart broad invented in the late twilight of his career and not something that’s been around for ages lol

 

[Ali TT]

just riffing off this too, something that gets me is when comms are carrying on like wobbleseam’s like this new thing stuart broad invented in the late twilight of his career and not something that’s been around for ages lol

Quite, it was invented by Jimmy Anderson in the early evening of his.

 

[Xix2565]

just riffing off this too, something that gets me is when comms are carrying on like wobbleseam’s like this new thing stuart broad invented in the late twilight of his career and not something that’s been around for ages lol

I do think it's been less of a practiced skill in the past. I think Kimber in one of his videos talks about how some players randomly can do the wobbleseam because of their natural action and couldn't really control it. Sometimes they'd wobble the ball, sometimes not.

 

[Burgey]

The skill is in consistently bowling with a release which has a higher than normal probability of doing something unexpected (and as you say putting it in an area which matters), not in controlling exactly what it does.

Glenn McGrath dislikes this post tbh

 

[TheJediBrah]

With McGrath and co controlling which way a ball decks off the seam it's about probabilities. You can bowl the "leg cutter" and it's not going to cut away every time but if you do it the way they do it has a higher chance.

"Wobble seam" aka just ****ing up your release in a way any 4th grade trundler can do is just pure chance as to what it does

 

[Starfighter]

With McGrath and co controlling which way a ball decks off the seam it's about probabilities. You can bowl the "leg cutter" and it's not going to cut away every time but if you do it the way they do it has a higher chance.

"Wobble seam" aka just ****ing up your release in a way any 4th grade trundler can do is just pure chance as to what it does

Funnily enough I was just watching Andy Caddick bowling some 'wobble seamers' against NZ. He had the seam tilted* but otherwise bowled with the normal grip and release that he'd bowl his outswinger with. Amazingly, the deliveries moved in, as you'd expect from the mechanics of the release, compared to some alleged magical properties of a wobbly seam.

*two decades later this is allegedly new, innovative and not seen before

 

[Starfighter]

Okay, I got one. When commentators criticise a spinner's trajectory, you'll hear things about them not looping it enough, not 'getting it above the batsman's eyeline' or similar. Warne did this a lot. I don't think it's really a thing for two reasons.

Firstly, spinners tend to bowl fairly upright actions, without as much torso bend as a fast bowler (though you do get the odd one who really tilts, especially wrist spinners). Unless the bowler is short and/or the batsman very tall, the ball is almost certainly being released from above eye level anyway.

Secondly, when bowled at the kind of speeds you usually see in international cricket, there is little to no upwards trajectory on the ball. I don't often get to see professional bowlers, but when I do I find it almost astounding how fast they bowl. And (as a cricket nerd) when there's a speed gun I take note of what the trajectory looks like. I've found that for there to be a noticeable upwards component to the naked eye, it has to be at or below 80 km/h or so. While sometimes bowlers are slower than this, usually they're significantly over. By the time the speed reaches the low 90s, from fairly side on it looks nearly flat to the naked eye.

While I get it as a piece of advice to budding bowlers to not simply fire the ball into the pitch (though some bowlers make that work), modern professional bowlers don't normally loop the ball and don't really 'get it above the eyeline' other than that's where they release it from.

 

[Ali TT]

Okay, I got one. When commentators criticise a spinner's trajectory, you'll hear things about them not looping it enough, not 'getting it above the batsman's eyeline' or similar. Warne did this a lot. I don't think it's really a thing for two reasons.

Firstly, spinners tend to bowl fairly upright actions, without as much torso bend as a fast bowler (though you do get the odd one who really tilts, especially wrist spinners). Unless the bowler is short and/or the batsman very tall, the ball is almost certainly being released from above eye level anyway.

Secondly, when bowled at the kind of speeds you usually see in international cricket, there is little to no upwards trajectory on the ball. I don't often get to see professional bowlers, but when I do I find it almost astounding how fast they bowl. And (as a cricket nerd) when there's a speed gun I take note of what the trajectory looks like. I've found that for there to be a noticeable upwards component to the naked eye, it has to be at or below 80 km/h or so. While sometimes bowlers are slower than this, usually they're significantly over. By the time the speed reaches the low 90s, from fairly side on it looks nearly flat to the naked eye.

While I get it as a piece of advice to budding bowlers to not simply fire the ball into the pitch (though some bowlers make that work), modern professional bowlers don't normally loop the ball and don't really 'get it above the eyeline' other than that's where they release it from.

I think there is a difference between finger and wrist spinners as you suggest. Warne was certainly one who could get a bit of loop upwards at the release point.

In reality it's probably more about keeping the ball higher for longer with as much dip as possible at the end rather than a more direct trajectory to where it pitches. Obviously the later the dip and also any lateral drift the better.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Okay, I got one. When commentators criticise a spinner's trajectory, you'll hear things about them not looping it enough, not 'getting it above the batsman's eyeline' or similar. Warne did this a lot. I don't think it's really a thing for two reasons.

Firstly, spinners tend to bowl fairly upright actions, without as much torso bend as a fast bowler (though you do get the odd one who really tilts, especially wrist spinners). Unless the bowler is short and/or the batsman very tall, the ball is almost certainly being released from above eye level anyway.

Secondly, when bowled at the kind of speeds you usually see in international cricket, there is little to no upwards trajectory on the ball. I don't often get to see professional bowlers, but when I do I find it almost astounding how fast they bowl. And (as a cricket nerd) when there's a speed gun I take note of what the trajectory looks like. I've found that for there to be a noticeable upwards component to the naked eye, it has to be at or below 80 km/h or so. While sometimes bowlers are slower than this, usually they're significantly over. By the time the speed reaches the low 90s, from fairly side on it looks nearly flat to the naked eye.

While I get it as a piece of advice to budding bowlers to not simply fire the ball into the pitch (though some bowlers make that work), modern professional bowlers don't normally loop the ball and don't really 'get it above the eyeline' other than that's where they release it from.

Spinners in the past also couldn’t bowl 90kph with proper revs - that would be their dirty arm ball. Now most spinners are more athletic and can bowl their stock ball in the 90s no problem.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Okay, I got one. When commentators criticise a spinner's trajectory, you'll hear things about them not looping it enough, not 'getting it above the batsman's eyeline' or similar. Warne did this a lot. I don't think it's really a thing for two reasons.

Firstly, spinners tend to bowl fairly upright actions, without as much torso bend as a fast bowler (though you do get the odd one who really tilts, especially wrist spinners). Unless the bowler is short and/or the batsman very tall, the ball is almost certainly being released from above eye level anyway.

Secondly, when bowled at the kind of speeds you usually see in international cricket, there is little to no upwards trajectory on the ball. I don't often get to see professional bowlers, but when I do I find it almost astounding how fast they bowl. And (as a cricket nerd) when there's a speed gun I take note of what the trajectory looks like. I've found that for there to be a noticeable upwards component to the naked eye, it has to be at or below 80 km/h or so. While sometimes bowlers are slower than this, usually they're significantly over. By the time the speed reaches the low 90s, from fairly side on it looks nearly flat to the naked eye.

While I get it as a piece of advice to budding bowlers to not simply fire the ball into the pitch (though some bowlers make that work), modern professional bowlers don't normally loop the ball and don't really 'get it above the eyeline' other than that's where they release it from.

The other factor is overspin, which can make the ball dip more than expected. Also can be varied. This is one reason why a lot of spinners won't mind bowling into the wind. The combination of aggressive overspin and a headwind can allow you to "flight" a ball better for a given speed at release and make it harder for a batsman to read where it's going to pitch.

Other than that "Above the eyeline" is often essentially just saying they're bowling slower

 

[Flem274*]

Your stock ball needs to be above 80 clicks to be test class. Anything else and test batsmen seem to have so much time to play it.

It's pretty hard to really flight a ball when you send it well over 80kph. Most spinners I've watched tend to use flight as the bait ball, and it comes a lot slower. If you consistently bowl with great flight, you're likely capping yourself to FC journeyman or are a batsman bowling troll spin.

Last relevant game I watched at the ground, Jack Leach was bowling. What really struck me the most was how fast he snapped through his action in person after his gentle stroll in. It would be very hard for a FC batsman to pick any variation. Leach doesn't even look snappy on TV, so I can only imagine what facing Jadeja is like.

 

[thierry henry]

I’ve watched Jadeja bowl live at Eden Park on a pitch that seemed to be turning a bit and he looked horrible to face, but his run up and action still looked very chill. tbh I’m still not sure how he bowls as quick as he does and puts as much work on the ball as he does with his action, apart from being supremely athletic.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I’ve watched Jadeja bowl live at Eden Park on a pitch that seemed to be turning a bit and he looked horrible to face, but his run up and action still looked very chill. tbh I’m still not sure how he bowls as quick as he does and puts as much work on the ball as he does with his action, apart from being supremely athletic.

Trains his fingers extremely regularly. I hear they get as nearly as much use as his moustache

 

[Spark]

Your stock ball needs to be above 80 clicks to be test class. Anything else and test batsmen seem to have so much time to play it.

It's pretty hard to really flight a ball when you send it well over 80kph. Most spinners I've watched tend to use flight as the bait ball, and it comes a lot slower. If you consistently bowl with great flight, you're likely capping yourself to FC journeyman or are a batsman bowling troll spin.

Last relevant game I watched at the ground, Jack Leach was bowling. What really struck me the most was how fast he snapped through his action in person after his gentle stroll in. It would be very hard for a FC batsman to pick any variation. Leach doesn't even look snappy on TV, so I can only imagine what facing Jadeja is like.

Honestly low 80s even seems problematic these days. Hartley was bowling that in the first dig of the first game in this series and he looked so, so hittable at those speeds.

 

[mr_mister]

Is McGrath the slowest speed you can still be effective at as a quick?

There's a famous video of Boycott laughing at Jackson Bird's gentle "82 mile an hour" bowling on commentary, and all I could think of is "didn't McGrath bowl even slower?"

 

[Flem274*]

Is McGrath the slowest speed you can still be effective at as a quick?

There's a famous video of Boycott laughing at Jackson Bird's gentle "82 mile an hour" bowling on commentary, and all I could think of is "didn't McGrath bowl even slower?"

Late career McGrath, along with guys like Philander and 2017 - 2022 Southee yeah. 125kph is the absolute bare minimum but you need to be world class at landing it on the spot, moving it around, using the crease etc.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Late career McGrath, along with guys like Philander and 2017 - 2022 Southee yeah. 125kph is the absolute bare minimum but you need to be world class at landing it on the spot, moving it around, using the crease etc.

Philander was too conditions dependent. At that pace he needed help from the wicket, which he got often

 

[shortpitched713]

Late career McGrath, along with guys like Philander and 2017 - 2022 Southee yeah. 125kph is the absolute bare minimum but you need to be world class at landing it on the spot, moving it around, using the crease etc.

Being a 6' 5" bean pole doesn't hurt either .