Football World XI's - Eurpoe, South America, Africa

[Furball]

If you put pirlo at his peak in the same role as xavi there won't be much difference.

Yes there would, Barcelona would be a much worse team if you swapped Xavi for Pirlo, even at his peak. Xavi is so far ahead of every midfielder of his type that I've seen that it's almost beyond comprehension.

 

[marc71178]

Add in the fact that age has caught up with Pirlo and I stand by my previous comment.

 

[aussie]

Erm.. Robben is not the touchline hugging winger, he always cuts in. Besides the whole point of having wrong footed wingers is to cut inside, while full backs overlap. May be wingers may swap some time in the game but even then its better to have a striker who can perform as a false nine so to encourage midfield runs. Both robben, ronaldo are goal scoring wingers rather than crossing type so its better to have villa rather than torres in your line up, for pure tactical reasons. Also the fact villa is more complete forward than torres will solidify villa's case.

Zidane is completely different type of player to both ronaldinho,kaka. Riquelme is better comparison, but riquelme doesn't offer much goal scoring threat. So i'm pretty sure sneijder is better comparison to zidane than the names you mentioned.
You are also saying you can't see difference between gerrard playing behind torres and sneijder playing behind milito? Well there is a lot of difference between those two systems. The most obvious being sneijder can control the pace of the game accordingly, something that gerrard never did in his career so far.

Robben generally definately cuts in more often. But i have certainly seen him huggin the toucline & looking to corss it into the box. Same thing with Big C Ronaldo.

I like the idea of having a "false 9" as you suggested to encourage mid-field runs. But Xavi/Pirlo/Van B would look to supply front three rather than come forward much. Maybe then one of Xavi/Pirlo would have to be replaced instead of an AM like Sneijder/Gerrard. But if i keep the mid-field trio i'd like to have a tall striker in Torres up there to be play as # 9, since Villa didn't look too comfortable when he lead the line for Spain during the WC.

Zidane was a Xavi with a more dynamic attacking game/goal-scoring ability, which i certainly saw alot of him in Riquelme. Ronaldinho had Zizou's attacking/goal-scoring ability but yea not his passing, vision and ability setting the tempo of play as well (Xavi did that @ Barca for Ronnie & Pirlo for Kaka). So overall yea i guess i do see a bit of Zidane in Wesley for real.

With the comparison with Torres/Gerrard & Milito/Sneijder. Obviously both played clubs played 4-2-3-1 (especially when Alosno was @ Liverpool). Yes as you said Sneijder set the tempo for Inter - Alonso did that for Liverpool. But their ability to score goals is very similar.

But my intial reason for prefering Gerrard to Sneijder in the EURO squad was due to his superior versatilyt. Better defensive game & ability to play well on the left & right side of mid-field. Sneijder if he isn't playing the "hole" seems out of place & thus he can be left out when you have have Ribery/Iniesta, Gerrard, Villa, Rooney in the squad who can play their as well.

 

[aussie]

Yes there would, Barcelona would be a much worse team if you swapped Xavi for Pirlo, even at his peak. Xavi is so far ahead of every midfielder of his type that I've seen that it's almost beyond comprehension.

spillsguinnessjpg. SMH..

Add in the fact that age has caught up with Pirlo and I stand by my previous comment.

What evidence do you have that age has caught up with him & has affected his game?. I have seen none

Either way the only way to prove myself & L Trumper right is if Pirlo gets better players for Milan (maybe moves to a better club) or Italy & shows he has lost nothing.

 

[Furball]

Robben generally definately cuts in more often. But i have certainly seen him huggin the toucline & looking to corss it into the box. Same thing with Big C Ronaldo.

I like the idea of having a "false 9" as you suggested to encourage mid-field runs. But Xavi/Pirlo/Van B would look to supply front three rather than come forward much. Maybe then one of Xavi/Pirlo would have to be replaced instead of an AM like Sneijder/Gerrard. But if i keep the mid-field trio i'd like to have a tall striker in Torres up there to be play as # 9, since Villa didn't look too comfortable when he lead the line for Spain during the WC.

Zidane was a Xavi with a more dynamic attacking game/goal-scoring ability, which i certainly saw alot of him in Riquelme. Ronaldinho had Zizou's attacking/goal-scoring ability but yea not his passing, vision and ability setting the tempo of play as well (Xavi did that @ Barca for Ronnie & Pirlo for Kaka). So overall yea i guess i do see a bit of Zidane in Wesley for real.

With the comparison with Torres/Gerrard & Milito/Sneijder. Obviously both played clubs played 4-2-3-1 (especially when Alosno was @ Liverpool). Yes as you said Sneijder set the tempo for Inter - Alonso did that for Liverpool. But their ability to score goals is very similar.

But my intial reason for prefering Gerrard to Sneijder in the EURO squad was due to his superior versatilyt. Better defensive game & ability to play well on the left & right side of mid-field. Sneijder if he isn't playing the "hole" seems out of place & thus he can be left out when you have have Ribery/Iniesta, Gerrard, Villa, Rooney in the squad who can play their as well.

Xavi's done pretty well playing behind a false 9. Please tell me you watched the last 2 times Barcelona have been to the Bernebeau?

 

[aussie]

Xavi's done pretty well playing behind a false 9. Please tell me you watched the last 2 times Barcelona have been to the Bernebeau?

I cant remember. I know i saw a game i think it was either last year or the 08/09 where Barca won 6-2 @ the Bernabeau. I think Barca played 4-3-3 that day & if so that would mean Xavi didn't play as the behind the false 9 that day.

 

[Furball]

I cant remember. I know i saw a game i think it was either last year or the 08/09 where Barca won 6-2 @ the Bernabeau. I think Barca played 4-3-3 that day & if so that would mean Xavi didn't play as the behind the false 9 that day.

Yes he did. Messi has played as a false 9 on the last 2 occasions Barcelona have played Real away from home.

 

[L Trumper]

Yes there would, Barcelona would be a much worse team if you swapped Xavi for Pirlo, even at his peak. Xavi is so far ahead of every midfielder of his type that I've seen that it's almost beyond comprehension.

Erm.. Then you definitely didn't see deco in porto, pirlo in 03,04;
Every midfielder of his type? I presume you mean his generation!!! Other wise there are brazilians from didi to socrates who are better than xavi...

 

[L Trumper]

I cant remember. I know i saw a game i think it was either last year or the 08/09 where Barca won 6-2 @ the Bernabeau. I think Barca played 4-3-3 that day & if so that would mean Xavi didn't play as the behind the false 9 that day.

Middle guy in that front 3 is messi, which he played as a false nine.. And xavi run riot that day.

 

[L Trumper]

Zidane was a Xavi with a more dynamic attacking game/goal-scoring ability, which i certainly saw alot of him in Riquelme. Ronaldinho had Zizou's attacking/goal-scoring ability but yea not his passing, vision and ability setting the tempo of play as well (Xavi did that @ Barca for Ronnie & Pirlo for Kaka). So overall yea i guess i do see a bit of Zidane in Wesley for real.

Ronaldinho and zidane play in different positions. Ronnie definitely has zidane's vision may be not the passing. Sneijder is the one who comes close to zidane's position also with similar goal scoring threat.
Zidane, xavi are completely different players. Xavi is the link that whole team passes around, while zidane is in the hole player try to provide killer passes, so he'll look more dynamic/attacking threat. Xavi is generally 20-25 yards behind the position that zidane used to play.

 

[Furball]

Erm.. Then you definitely didn't see deco in porto, pirlo in 03,04;
Every midfielder of his type? I presume you mean his generation!!! Other wise there are brazilians from didi to socrates who are better than xavi...

They were short term peaks.

Xavi has been at a level above that, for a longer period of time. He didn't just become an excellent player in the last couple of years under Guardiola, he's been the lynchpin at Barcelona for 6 years now.

 

[L Trumper]

They were short term peaks.

Xavi has been at a level above that, for a longer period of time. He didn't just become an excellent player in the last couple of years under Guardiola, he's been the lynchpin at Barcelona for 6 years now.

Well but he is neither the leader nor as influential as he is now. Deco and ronaldinho are generally did the more creative work.
Besides I stated that pirlo at his peak would've fit it into this barca system, not pirlo of now. There is a lot of difference.



“I haven’t changed…my skills haven’t declined. It’s just that football now is different. It’s played at a higher pace and it’s a lot more physical. The tactics are different now, you have to be a ball-winner, a tackler, like Patrick Vieira or Edgar Davids. If you can pass too, well, that’s a bonus. But the emphasis, as far as central midfielders are concerned, is all on defensive work…players like me have become extinct.”
This is what Guardiola stated before the time of his retirement and he acknowledged that Pirlo’s role was possible at Milan as they played ‘a different brand of football‘.

The reason I am siting above is, xavi's role is lot different under Guardiola compared to rijkard. In the middle of the decade passing midfielder role was almost non exist and xavi used to play as a link between edmilson and deco and he was not the guy on whom barca's play depended on. But that's not the case now, he performs a different role. He is never a level above deco in porto or pirlo in 03/04. He finally hit his peak in euro08 which is still going on and no signs of ending.
He may be a better player than deco or pirlo. But saying he is on a level above them for the last 6-7 years is far fetching and I don't think anyone who followed serieA or that porto team will agree. I guess you didn't watch 04 serieA when Milan won in a canter.

Edit: Xavi started on bench for barca in 06 final, so much for the theory of him being barca's heart for last 7 seasons.

 

[Furball]

Well but he is neither the leader nor as influential as he is now. Deco and ronaldinho are generally did the more creative work.
Besides I stated that pirlo at his peak would've fit it into this barca system, not pirlo of now. There is a lot of difference.



“I haven’t changed…my skills haven’t declined. It’s just that football now is different. It’s played at a higher pace and it’s a lot more physical. The tactics are different now, you have to be a ball-winner, a tackler, like Patrick Vieira or Edgar Davids. If you can pass too, well, that’s a bonus. But the emphasis, as far as central midfielders are concerned, is all on defensive work…players like me have become extinct.”
This is what Guardiola stated before the time of his retirement and he acknowledged that Pirlo’s role was possible at Milan as they played ‘a different brand of football‘.

The reason I am siting above is, xavi's role is lot different under Guardiola compared to rijkard. In the middle of the decade passing midfielder role was almost non exist and xavi used to play as a link between edmilson and deco and he was not the guy on whom barca's play depended on. But that's not the case now, he performs a different role. He is never a level above deco in porto or pirlo in 03/04. He finally hit his peak in euro08 which is still going on and no signs of ending.
He may be a better player than deco or pirlo. But saying he is on a level above them for the last 6-7 years is far fetching and I don't think anyone who followed serieA or that porto team will agree. I guess you didn't watch 04 serieA when Milan won in a canter.

Edit: Xavi started on bench for barca in 06 final, so much for the theory of him being barca's heart for last 7 seasons.

Xavi started on the bench because he wasn't long back from a cruciate ligament injury.

 

[L Trumper]

Xavi started on the bench because he wasn't long back from a cruciate ligament injury.

Yep. He is not necessarily the integral part of the team at that time as he is now. At that time he used to play behind the likes of deco, guily; in turn giving up most of creative duties to them.

While in 2006 pirlo steering italy to WC, xavi mostly missed the prior season through injuries. Somehow you think xavi is at a different level to pirlo during that time even while he is not even playing.

 

[vcs]

I agree with L. Trumper that Euro 2008 and Guardiola have pushed Xavi to a different level in his career. That said, I still don't remember Pirlo producing Xavi's level of sustained midfield dominance even at his peak, or in WC '06. I distinctly remember France being the better side than Italy in that final. That doesn't invalidate Pirlo's achievements of course, but I stand by my earlier point that I have seen midfields containing Pirlo get dominated much more than midfields containing Xavi. A high-pressing, aggressive, physical midfield along the lines of Arsenal '08 can keep the ball away from Pirlo for long periods whereas it seems hardly anyone can do that to Xavi.

The amazing thing about Xavi is - as I pointed out earlier, he seems to dominate midfields irrespective of who is put alongside him, he was amazing for Spain with Senna in Euro '08 and now with Alonso in WC' 10, he has been the one constant in the Barca midfield alongside Y. Toure/Iniesta/Keita/Busquets.

 

[L Trumper]

I agree with L. Trumper that Euro 2008 and Guardiola have pushed Xavi to a different level in his career. That said, I still don't remember Pirlo producing Xavi's level of sustained midfield dominance even at his peak, or in WC '06. I distinctly remember France being the better side than Italy in that final. That doesn't invalidate Pirlo's achievements of course, but I stand by my earlier point that I have seen midfields containing Pirlo get dominated much more than midfields containing Xavi. A high-pressing, aggressive, physical midfield along the lines of Arsenal '08 can keep the ball away from Pirlo for long periods whereas it seems hardly anyone can do that to Xavi.

The amazing thing about Xavi is - as I pointed out earlier, he seems to dominate midfields irrespective of who is put alongside him, he was amazing for Spain with Senna in Euro '08 and now with Alonso in WC' 10, he has been the one constant in the Barca midfield alongside Y. Toure/Iniesta/Keita/Busquets.

Yep. Xavi is more complete midfielder than pirlo. That is for sure. But pirlo at his peak is just as good as xavi is. But the problem is he never had the system that xavi generally plays in. So time and again he is going to get exposed unlike xavi who has a remarkable passing midfield on a whole.

 

[Ikki]

They were short term peaks.

Xavi has been at a level above that, for a longer period of time. He didn't just become an excellent player in the last couple of years under Guardiola, he's been the lynchpin at Barcelona for 6 years now.

Not really. He was a very good player but wasn't the lynchpin you have him pegged as. It's not like he was **** and then became one of the best players in the world over night but his peak hasn't been that long. I'd say since the 07/08 season.

Yep. Xavi is more complete midfielder than pirlo. That is for sure. But pirlo at his peak is just as good as xavi is. But the problem is he never had the system that xavi generally plays in. So time and again he is going to get exposed unlike xavi who has a remarkable passing midfield on a whole.

This. Xavi is more a pass master and likes to keep the ball moving with short passes. Pirlo is the master of the ball over the top of the defence. Different players with different approaches, and that probably has to do with the players around them.

 

[Uppercut]

Xavi doesn't favour short passes. He just plays the best available pass almost every time he gets the ball, and the best ball in football is usually the simple ball.

Inter countered him very effectively last year over two legs, though.

 

[GIMH]

I never realised football could be boring until I read this thread

 

[sledger]

I never realised football could be boring until I read this thread

There are various other threads around these parts that also led me to this conclusion tbh.