Fletcher's a joke

[Barney Rubble]

Im sure at the time you'd have taken an Ashes win under those circumstances, and a 5-0 whitewash afterwards if offered it..

Yeah, probably. A 5-0 whitewash wouldn't have hurt much if I knew it was coming.

 

[Arrow]

. And, unless people are arguing that Panesar is better than Vettori (who averages over 40 against Australia, in Australia) Monty's non-selection has hardly cost England the Series. I know people are frustrated, but you have to maintain some perspective.
.

Since when is vettori the benchmark for spinners against australia? Hes always been a mediorce spinner.
Panesar has shown he can run through sides in tests while Giles cant. His selection was entirely defensive and it could have cost England dearly. We cant prove it did but the fact that Giles failed miserably in every aspect of the sport this test, suggests Fletcher has a lot to answer for.

 

[BingLeeElectric]

Since when is vettori the benchmark for spinners against australia? Hes always been a mediorce spinner.

No he hasn't. And still isn't.

 

[howardj]

Since when is vettori the benchmark for spinners against australia? Hes always been a mediorce spinner.
Panesar has shown he can run through sides in tests while Giles cant. His selection was entirely defensive and it could have cost England dearly. We cant prove it did but the fact that Giles failed miserably in every aspect of the sport this test, suggests Fletcher has a lot to answer for.

I said he's not as good as Vettori, who himself has a poor record out here. Therefore, it stands to reason that Monty, on the balance of probabilities, would have had a marginal impact in the Series so far. The way some people talk about him on this forum you'd swear he was a Warne clone. Just because people are frustrated with Giles, doesn't mean they should pump Panesar up into something he's not.

 

[shortpitched713]

Nah, I'd get an incomprehensible load of garbage followed by a bat to the face

Skull.

 

[greg]

In Fletcher's defence, he wasn't the person who told the batsmen to be so ultra-defensive yesterday. Apparently, the talk in the dressing room was to get the scoreboard going. It was that defensiveness - a decision made by the batsmen who were out there - that cost England the match. And, unless people are arguing that Panesar is better than Vettori (who averages over 40 against Australia, in Australia) Monty's non-selection has hardly cost England the Series. I know people are frustrated, but you have to maintain some perspective.

You've got to crack on, and go to Perth with the chin up.

Well Panesar is better than Vettori. Anyway how often has Vettori got an opportunity to bowl against Australia with 551 runs on the board?

Anyway comparing with Vettori is silly. Even averaging 40 with the ball and opposed to, to pick randomly upon the average of another spinner, 90, England would be in a better position in this series.

Fletcher says that Panesar was not picked at Adelaide because the ball didn't spin in the 3 day match at Adelaide. No shet Sherlock! How far did it spin on days four and five of that 3 day match?

 

[GIMH]

Completely not true on all of your parts.

Okay, okay I retract the comment. Just trying to be dramatic and all.

You don't miss what you've never had though, and we're just giving it away. Or something.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Well Panesar is better than Vettori. Anyway how often has Vettori got an opportunity to bowl against Australia with 551 runs on the board?

Anyway comparing with Vettori is silly. Even averaging 40 with the ball and opposed to, to pick randomly upon the average of another spinner, 90, England would be in a better position in this series.

Fletcher says that Panesar was not picked at Adelaide because the ball didn't spin in the 3 day match at Adelaide. No shet Sherlock! How far did it spin on days four and five of that 3 day match?

Panesar is not as good as Vettori.

 

[greg]

Panesar is not as good as Vettori.

Based on anything in particular, or just because he hasn't been playing enough to form a judgement?

 

[Scaly piscine]

Based on anything in particular, or just because he hasn't been playing enough to form a judgement?

Based on reality. Panesar is ridiculously over-rated. If he had played these first two Tests his average would be up to 35+ by now because he'd have finally played on some spin unfriendly wickets against good players of finger spin.

 

[silentstriker]

Based on reality. Panesar is ridiculously over-rated. If he had played these first two Tests his average would be up to 35+ by now because he'd have finally played on some spin unfriendly wickets against good players of finger spin.

India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka are not good players of finger spin?

 

[Scaly piscine]

India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka are not good players of finger spin?

Pakistan aren't. Most if not all the wickets played on against India and SL had something in them for finger spin.

 

[greg]

Pakistan aren't. Most if not all the wickets played on against India and SL had something in them for finger spin.

Vettori averages 100 against Pakistan. Which is all that is needed for the purpose of this discussion.

 

[PY]

Pakistan aren't good players of spin? New one to me....

 

[silentstriker]

I don't think you can make it out of the subcontinent domestic structure without at least being an adequate player of spin.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Pakistan aren't good players of spin? New one to me....

They're not good players of *finger* spin. India, SL and Australia are better at playing it. When you're comfortably below three teams at playing finger spin then you can hardly call yourself good players of it.

 

[silentstriker]

Harbhajan averages 57 against them, Vettori averages 100...

 

[Poker Boy]

I'd say Yoisuf, Younis Khan and Inzamam are good players of spin and Monty got them out eight times between them. of course he should have played in the first two tests but Fletcher was scared he'd get a duck when a top batsman needed him to stay with him or drop, say Ponting and see him make a hundred because Giles would never do those things. I widh Fletcher would own up and say "I was wrong" like Nasser did in 2002 - he'd gain respect from me. I was thinking before this series he might go after the World Cup - he's been there 7 years and you can stay too long - now I think he MUST. Get Tom Moody in before Australia get him. Remember Bobby Simpson coached Australia to a big win in the Carribean in 1995 and a year later he was out - we need someone to take us to the next level. Fletcher's done well for us (as did Simpson for Australia) but its time for a change.

 

[greg]

They're not good players of *finger* spin. India, SL and Australia are better at playing it. When you're comfortably below three teams at playing finger spin then you can hardly call yourself good players of it.

I thought the usual line was that Pakistan couldn't play "leg" spin (whether left arm orthodox or wrist spin).

 

[greg]

I wish Fletcher would own up and say "I was wrong" like Nasser did in 2002 - he'd gain respect from me. I was thinking before this series he might go after the World Cup - he's been there 7 years and you can stay too long - now I think he MUST. Get Tom Moody in before Australia get him. Remember Bobby Simpson coached Australia to a big win in the Carribean in 1995 and a year later he was out - we need someone to take us to the next level. Fletcher's done well for us (as did Simpson for Australia) but its time for a change.

I think at the moment we need to put on hold thoughts of going to the "next" level and find someone who can prevent us falling way back down to our previous level

And in the short term we need someone in place (even if on a short term contract) - Darren Lehmann would be perfect - for the World Cup. If Fletcher's abilities as a test coach are tarnished and he will be going anyway then he MUST UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BE ALLOWED TO OVERSEE CATASTROPHE IN THE WINDIES. There is so much that could easily be put right about our ODI team to make us competitive, that the ECB should take the first opportunity to change things.