silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
During that peak, he also averaged 22 away in 23 matches, including 19 in Australia. So I don’t think you can blame the umpires for that.
Also with an away average of 42 with the bat during that time…
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Find a better bowler peak (min 33 Tests) than this (protip, you can't)
- Thread starter shortpitched713
- Start date
Also with an away average of 42 with the bat during that time…
TheJediBrah
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This guy
flibbertyjibber
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A surprise early Botham was so far down the list, add in his batting though and he had some ridiculous records early on.
BazBall21
International Captain
Australia, South Africa, Windies, India and England were probably the top five opponents against pace bowling in Waqar's time. Average of 28 and 30 overseas. Major drop-offs but he had a long career for a bowler of his kind and he only played twelve tests against those sides in Pakistan where he was generally at his best. 47 test sample overall.
srbhkshk
International Captain
So I tested it according to your 33 match criterion and it's not particularly special by average, 11 bowlers (including Waqar himself) have done better. It's by far the best peak by SR though. Removed the guys who retired before 1950 (Edit - Actually I missed removing them, but there's only 1 such guy so meh.). At least by raw numbers, Imran and Marshall's peak seem to be the best to me.
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
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So I've long thought that Waqar at his peak was quite possibly the greatest ever, now I'm just going to put it out there as a challenge to anyone else as I'm genuinely interested. Can you find a bowler who performed better, over a minimum of 33 Tests, than this statline for an ace strike bowler?
Ave: 19.15
SR: 36.0 ?!
Rules are it must be a contiguous period, so no omitting any Tests during the period. Also nice if it doesn't have a career break in it as well but not essential, as long as it is a contiguous run of Tests.
Also please spare me your Barnes and Lohmanns' for this exercise and let's keep it to bowlers in the living memory of at least someone on this forum.
| Name | First_Date | Last_Date | Runs | Wickets | Aver | SR | Matches |
| Imran Khan (PAK) | 15-Jan-80 | 20-Nov-86 | 2,931 | 184 | 15.9 | 42.3 | 33 |
| M Muralidaran (ICC/SL) | 20-Jun-03 | 11-Jul-07 | 4,330 | 250 | 17.3 | 41.1 | 33 |
| JC Laker (ENG) | 16-Aug-51 | 5-Dec-58 | 2,553 | 145 | 17.6 | 56.4 | 33 |
| MD Marshall (WI) | 30-Mar-84 | 21-Jul-88 | 3,459 | 196 | 17.6 | 40.4 | 33 |
| SM Pollock (SA) | 6-Aug-98 | 16-Nov-01 | 3,027 | 170 | 17.8 | 49.8 | 36 |
| Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) | 3-Feb-84 | 10-Feb-89 | 3,470 | 193 | 18.0 | 44.1 | 33 |
| GD McGrath (AUS) | 26-Nov-99 | 7-Nov-02 | 2,951 | 160 | 18.4 | 47.5 | 33 |
| CEL Ambrose (WI) | 5-Apr-90 | 21-Apr-95 | 3,192 | 172 | 18.6 | 50.5 | 35 |
| JM Anderson (ENG) | 29-Jul-15 | 9-Aug-18 | 2,767 | 147 | 18.8 | 48.2 | 34 |
| AA Donald (SA) | 2-Jan-96 | 25-Nov-99 | 3,246 | 172 | 18.9 | 40.7 | 33 |
| Waqar Younis (PAK) | 19-Jan-90 | 30-Nov-95 | 3,657 | 193 | 18.9 | 35.9 | 33 |
| AK Davidson (AUS) | 23-Aug-56 | 11-Jan-63 | 3,212 | 168 | 19.1 | 50.1 | 33 |
| J Garner (WI) | 3-Mar-78 | 14-Jun-84 | 2,804 | 146 | 19.2 | 51.3 | 33 |
| RR Lindwall (AUS) | 31-Jan-47 | 9-Jul-53 | 2,730 | 141 | 19.4 | 42.3 | 33 |
| PJ Cummins (AUS) | 22-Mar-18 | 17-Dec-22 | 3,136 | 159 | 19.7 | 44.4 | 33 |
| Wasim Akram (PAK) | 12-Jan-90 | 8-Dec-95 | 3,875 | 195 | 19.9 | 46.5 | 37 |
| R Ashwin (IND) | 18-Aug-18 | 12-Jul-23 | 3,276 | 163 | 20.1 | 48.0 | 33 |
| FS Trueman (ENG) | 14-Mar-59 | 4-Jul-63 | 3,523 | 174 | 20.2 | 45.9 | 34 |
| JB Statham (ENG) | 25-Feb-55 | 21-Jul-60 | 2,725 | 134 | 20.3 | 54.2 | 33 |
| DW Steyn (SA) | 30-Nov-12 | 13-Feb-19 | 2,997 | 147 | 20.4 | 41.9 | 33 |
| KR Miller (AUS) | 29-Mar-46 | 9-Jan-53 | 2,193 | 107 | 20.5 | 44.7 | 33 |
| AV Bedser (ENG) | 16-Dec-48 | 22-Jul-54 | 3,402 | 165 | 20.6 | 55.7 | 33 |
| K Rabada (SA) | 28-Sep-17 | 17-Aug-22 | 3,388 | 163 | 20.8 | 39.0 | 33 |
| IT Botham (ENG) | 11-Aug-77 | 30-Jul-81 | 3,783 | 182 | 20.8 | 44.7 | 38 |
| SK Warne (AUS) | 25-Feb-93 | 8-Dec-95 | 3,909 | 187 | 20.9 | 59.8 | 33 |
| CA Walsh (WI) | 20-Jun-97 | 15-Dec-00 | 3,316 | 157 | 21.1 | 53.0 | 33 |
| RGD Willis (ENG) | 22-Jul-76 | 16-Aug-79 | 2,751 | 130 | 21.2 | 43.2 | 33 |
| MA Holding (WI) | 13-Mar-81 | 3-Apr-86 | 3,081 | 145 | 21.2 | 45.1 | 33 |
| GAR Lock (ENG) | 13-Aug-55 | 26-Jul-62 | 2,837 | 133 | 21.3 | 67.1 | 33 |
| VD Philander (SA) | 9-Nov-11 | 12-Jan-17 | 3,403 | 159 | 21.4 | 46.8 | 40 |
| DL Underwood (ENG) | 10-Aug-67 | 9-Aug-73 | 3,108 | 145 | 21.4 | 62.9 | 33 |
| DK Lillee (AUS) | 25-Feb-77 | 19-Mar-82 | 3,839 | 179 | 21.4 | 45.7 | 33 |
| IR Bishop (WI) | 25-Mar-89 | 27-Mar-97 | 3,229 | 147 | 22.0 | 48.7 | 33 |
| JO Holder (WI) | 21-Oct-16 | 20-Aug-21 | 2,510 | 114 | 22.0 | 54.0 | 33 |
| I Sharma (IND) | 9-Aug-16 | 12-Aug-21 | 2,334 | 106 | 22.0 | 48.3 | 33 |
| R Benaud (AUS) | 25-Feb-55 | 23-Jan-60 | 3,508 | 159 | 22.1 | 59.2 | 33 |
| Shoaib Akhtar (PAK) | 5-Mar-00 | 8-Dec-07 | 3,199 | 144 | 22.2 | 39.7 | 33 |
| KAJ Roach (WI) | 7-Sep-17 | 16-Jun-22 | 2,711 | 121 | 22.4 | 48.8 | 33 |
| RA Jadeja (IND) | 5-Nov-15 | 17-Feb-23 | 4,804 | 214 | 22.4 | 54.8 | 50 |
| SCJ Broad (ENG) | 30-Mar-18 | 10-Jun-21 | 2,718 | 121 | 22.5 | 49.4 | 33 |
| H Verity (ENG) | 10-Feb-33 | 20-Jan-39 | 2,953 | 130 | 22.7 | 66.6 | 33 |
| TE Bailey (ENG) | 30-Mar-54 | 9-Jan-59 | 1,766 | 77 | 22.9 | 60.5 | 33 |
| WA Johnston (AUS) | 28-Nov-47 | 28-Jan-55 | 3,637 | 158 | 23.0 | 55.6 | 36 |
| TG Southee (NZ) | 27-Aug-16 | 17-Feb-22 | 3,749 | 162 | 23.1 | 49.0 | 33 |
| N Wagner (NZ) | 18-Dec-15 | 11-Dec-20 | 3,518 | 152 | 23.1 | 48.2 | 33 |
| HH Streak (ZIM) | 9-Dec-93 | 15-Jun-01 | 3,685 | 159 | 23.2 | 54.8 | 38 |
| LR Gibbs (WI) | 5-Feb-58 | 31-Dec-66 | 3,362 | 144 | 23.3 | 69.5 | 33 |
| Mohammed Shami (IND) | 17-Nov-16 | 26-Dec-21 | 3,163 | 135 | 23.4 | 45.0 | 35 |
| Fazal Mahmood (PAK) | 16-Oct-52 | 26-Jul-62 | 3,232 | 137 | 23.6 | 69.5 | 33 |
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Coronis
International Coach
Crazy Davison’s entire peak was basically the rest of his career as soon as Miller left and he became the main strike bowler alongside Lindwall.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Even Lindwall by then wasn't anywhere near the force he had been - Davo's great partnership was with Benaud, a kind of forerunner to McWarne.
srbhkshk
International Captain
It's minimum 33 matches. People who have more than 33 had a better average over a (33 + n) match stretch in their career compared to any 33 match stretch in their career.
OverratedSanity
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Makes sense imo. If a player's managed a great run of results over a larger sample it should be acknowledged.
shortpitched713
International Captain
Waqar's peak is slightly shifted over, but is still early career Waqar seems like.
Imran coming in by far and away the winner for mine. 15.9 average is insane. Murali peak for a spinner with a 41.1 ! SR is also rather mind-boggling.
Thanks for the effort!
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Because 33 was the specifically specific period the OP thought that would prevent any other posters suggesting alternatives, made even more specific by ruling out bowlers from a long time ago and by focusing specifically on SR as the criterion.
Almost watertight
shortpitched713
International Captain
So an all-time peak attack could look something like:
Imran
Marshall
Waqar
Murali
I would probably **** myself.
Imran
Marshall
Waqar
Murali
I would probably **** myself.
shortpitched713
International Captain
SR focus, I've already discussed why it's important, and it's the reason that Waqar stuck out to me in the first place.
And I said 33 matches + so that the hypothesis "Waqar had the greatest main strike bowler peak of all time" could be falsified definitively.
Which it definitely has been, because peak Imran with a 3 runs better average (which more than makes up for the 6.4 balls SR difference in most peoples' minds I would think) definitely has a better peak on the numbers. I think it will be very difficult for any bowler to ever dethrone that Imran run.
Coronis
International Coach
Oh for sure, he just never blossomed whilst Miller was still there, he understandably began to blossom when he was allowed to open the bowling - after Miller retired.
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Yea during his 9 year peak from 80-88, he averaged 14 at home and 21 away. Genius on flat pitches
thierry henry
International Coach
Is "strike rate is as important or more important than average" one of those things that has become CW-consensus while the plebs still talk about average? Or am I being inherently absurd by talking about "CW consensus"?
At the risk of being a raw averages dullard, I just can't get behind the whole focus on strike rates thing. Fundamentally cricket is a score more runs/concede less runs game. As a bowler your job is to take the most wickets while conceding the least runs. If anything, being a good bowler usually goes hand-in-hand with being hard to score off, which lends itself to a comparatively poor strike-rate and good economy rate when compared to average. There is nothing intuitively right-feeling to me about applauding someone more for getting to the same place faster, and certainly not for getting to a worse place faster (i.e. getting wickets faster but conceding MORE runs).
But yeah, I acknowledge some pretty deep stats crunching goes on here that might have established this as a truism.
At the risk of being a raw averages dullard, I just can't get behind the whole focus on strike rates thing. Fundamentally cricket is a score more runs/concede less runs game. As a bowler your job is to take the most wickets while conceding the least runs. If anything, being a good bowler usually goes hand-in-hand with being hard to score off, which lends itself to a comparatively poor strike-rate and good economy rate when compared to average. There is nothing intuitively right-feeling to me about applauding someone more for getting to the same place faster, and certainly not for getting to a worse place faster (i.e. getting wickets faster but conceding MORE runs).
But yeah, I acknowledge some pretty deep stats crunching goes on here that might have established this as a truism.