Fastest Left Arm Bowler?

[thierry henry]

errr by late 90's he was on the slide (in terms of pace). in the early to mid 90's he was certainly mid 140's upwards.

I know that, obviously. Perhaps I shouldn't have even bothered mentioning the late 90s thing. I watched Wasim from the early 90s onwards and vividly recall that he was generally in the mid-low 130s on those rare occasions when there were speedball radars. In the absence of the radar I think it's pretty spurious to make comparisons, as the radar often tends to ruin some preconceptions about who's bowling fast and who isn't.

if anyone has some sort of proof or even just a strong memory of Wasim being clocked consistently above 140 then I'll certainly accept it. I just never really saw him as being an express bowler, more a deceptively quick bowler off a very short run-up who was a brilliant all-round bowler.

 

[Top_Cat]

I remember Wasim bowling in quite a few games with speed-ball radars and he was usually in the 130s. From probably the late 90s generally low 130s. You all sure he was really that quick?

I assume those games you're referring to were in the late 90's/early 00's? If so, just remember Wasim started in the Pakistan team in the mid-80's; he was well past his prime in terms of sheer speed. In the early days and for a lot of the 90's, he was as quick as anyone. I never heard of him being clocked but I'm certain he was in someone like Bond's range for speed. Certainly in the 1992 WC he looked especially lethal (although of course one can never tell purely by watching). On this (***non-scientific) list, he's listed at 145km/h.

http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/STATS/FC/BOWLING/BOWLING_SPEEDS.html

*** I say that because, as clearly said on the link itself, it's not a complete list and I have my doubts about some of the measurements. Darren Gough being clocked at 151km/h I'm a bit doubtful of (although I did see him clocked at 146km/h that same summer so it's possible I guess; he just seemed to be absolutely busting a gut to get that speed, let alone 151km/h).

 

[thierry henry]

I assume those games you're referring to were in the late 90's/early 00's? If so, just remember Wasim started in the Pakistan team in the mid-80's; he was well past his prime in terms of sheer speed. In the early days and for a lot of the 90's, he was as quick as anyone. I never heard of him being clocked but I'm certain he was in someone like Bond's range for speed. Certainly in the 1992 WC he looked especially lethal (although of course one can never tell purely by watching). On this (non-scientific) list, he's listed at 145km/h.

http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/STATS/FC/BOWLING/BOWLING_SPEEDS.html

Presumably looking at that list that means 145 was the fastest he was ever clocked at. Geoff Allott is in there at 146.5 interestingly....

I just corrected that bit about the late 90s. As I said, I saw a lot of Wasim from about 1991/92 on (he routinely destroyed NZ) and on the (relatively rare) occasions when the radar was available, he wasn't registering as express.

I'm fully aware that he debuted in 84/85 as an 18 year old. Indeed I've got the footage of him knocking Lance Cairns senseless with a bouncer.

 

[Top_Cat]

Presumably looking at that list that means 145 was the fastest he was ever clocked at. Geoff Allott is in there at 146.5 interestingly....

With anything before 1998, take the list with the caveats in mind although with Allott, I'm certain that speed was about right. Particularly in the 1999 WC where he got his act together physically, he was pretty pacy.

Incidentally, I've got Wasim on video against Australia in 1999 being clocked at 144km/h so even late in his career, when he put-in, he could crank it speed-wise. It was two balls after his 'catch' behind denied him the wicket of Justin Langer in Hobart (probably would have won Pakistan the game, it was that crucial). He was pretty steamed and let rip with the above ball. Adam Gilchrist showed it scant respect by pulling it through mid-wicke for four, though.

 

[thierry henry]

With anything before 1998, take the list with the caveats in mind although with Allott, I'm certain that speed was about right. Particularly in the 1999 WC where he got his act together physically, he was pretty pacy.

Incidentally, I've got Wasim on video against Australia in 1999 being clocked at 144km/h so even late in his career, when he put-in, he could crank it speed-wise. It was two balls after his 'catch' behind denied him the wicket of Justin Langer in Hobart (probably would have won Pakistan the game, it was that crucial). He was pretty steamed and let rip with the above ball. Adam Gilchrist showed it scant respect by pulling it through mid-wicke for four, though.

Fair enough. Also I think the speed ball radars they occasionally used in NZ in the mid-90s tended to register too low. Medium fast bowlers routinely only bowled in the 120s according to the old radar as I recall it. Also I think it was similar in Australia in the early-mid 90s. I remember on one occasion that Mark Waugh (bowling his medium pacers at that stage) registered a ball at 130kph and I thought it was a freak occurrence cos generally only the quickest bowlers were even hitting 130.

 

[Top_Cat]

Fair enough. Also I think the speed ball radars they occasionally used in NZ in the mid-90s tended to register too low. Medium fast bowlers routinely only bowled in the 120s according to the old radar as I recall it. Also I think it was similar in Australia in the early-mid 90s. I remember on one occasion that Mark Waugh (bowling his medium pacers at that stage) registered a ball at 130kph and I thought it was a freak occurrence cos generally only the quickest bowlers were even hitting 130.

Actually I remember that myself. I remember that after getting clocked in the high 140's/low 150's in Australia in 1999/00, Brett Lee in the subsequent series in NZ was getting to the high 130's at best. He still looked as quick so I didn't know what was going on there.

Mark Waugh in the early days could occasionally get the ball into the mid-130's, though. Only when he really bent his back, though. Most of the time, mid 120's was his usual.

Oh and my Wasim example was the only ball that summer he got above 140km/h, by the way; most of the time he was in the mid-high 130's.

 

[thierry henry]

Actually I remember that myself. I remember that after getting clocked in the high 140's/low 150's in Australia in 1999/00, Brett Lee in the subsequent series in NZ was getting to the high 130's at best. He still looked as quick so I didn't know what was going on there.

Mark Waugh in the early days could occasionally get the ball into the mid-130's, though. Only when he really bent his back, though. Most of the time, mid 120's was his usual.

Oh and my Wasim example was the only ball that summer he got above 140km/h, by the way; most of the time he was in the mid-high 130's.

I honestly don't reckon Wasim was ever express, at least not from 1992 onwards. imo he was a high 130s- low 140s bowler in that period. But it's just an unfounded opinion really.

In NZ there was actually a bit of controversy in 2002/03. Shane Bond was in great form yet the fastest ball he registered all summer was only about 144kph. I then recall that Craig White registered about 146kph in one of the VB series games and it got to the extent of newspaper articles complaining that our speedball radar wasn't giving Bondy enough credit and a trundler like White was outdoing him, etc etc.

Strangely, I think ever since then the readings seem to be higher in NZ than Aus if anything. In particular, guys like Kyle Mills and James Franklin will often bowl 135+ in NZ but struggle to hit 130 in Australian. And Brett Lee has had some of his highest readings in NZ in recent years.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Why are all the fastest balls coming from certain countries? Something that's interested me for a while...

 

[Zinzan]

Presumably looking at that list that means 145 was the fastest he was ever clocked at. Geoff Allott is in there at 146.5 interestingly....

I just corrected that bit about the late 90s. As I said, I saw a lot of Wasim from about 1991/92 on (he routinely destroyed NZ) and on the (relatively rare) occasions when the radar was available, he wasn't registering as express.

I'm fully aware that he debuted in 84/85 as an 18 year old. Indeed I've got the footage of him knocking Lance Cairns senseless with a bouncer.

I was actually mention Allott earlier in this thread....he was getting it thru at good pace in the 99 WC particularly

 

[marc71178]

Why are all the fastest balls coming from certain countries? Something that's interested me for a while...

For the same reason that in SA for the World Cup a lot of bowlers bowled 5mph or so more than they previously had?

 

[luckyeddie]

Why are all the fastest balls coming from certain countries? Something that's interested me for a while...

Same make of speed gun, I'd suggest.

 

[Langeveldt]

Brett Schultz, shame he was injured so much

 

[Autobahn]

I honestly don't reckon Wasim was ever express, at least not from 1992 onwards. imo he was a high 130s- low 140s bowler in that period. But it's just an unfounded opinion really.

In NZ there was actually a bit of controversy in 2002/03. Shane Bond was in great form yet the fastest ball he registered all summer was only about 144kph. I then recall that Craig White registered about 146kph in one of the VB series games and it got to the extent of newspaper articles complaining that our speedball radar wasn't giving Bondy enough credit and a trundler like White was outdoing him, etc etc.

Strangely, I think ever since then the readings seem to be higher in NZ than Aus if anything. In particular, guys like Kyle Mills and James Franklin will often bowl 135+ in NZ but struggle to hit 130 in Australian. And Brett Lee has had some of his highest readings in NZ in recent years.

Craig White could be very nippy when he wanted to be and fooled a lot of people because most of his pace came from his shoulder which in end was his downfall.

 

[Richard]

Wasim Akram?

Or Bruce Ried?

How come the kak-handers cant get it through anyhow? All seem to want to be swing bowlers?

So what if they want to be (and often are) swing bowlers?
Why does that mean they can't get it through?
Isn't it rather more likely to be that both extremely fast bowlers and left-arm seamers are in a very small minority and the chances of a decent one (ie who can hit the cut strip) being in both happens very rarely?

 

[Richard]

For the same reason that in SA for the World Cup a lot of bowlers bowled 5mph or so more than they previously had?

Everyone bowls faster in South Africa than in England, Australia, West Indies and New Zealand.
For fairly obvious reasons.
It's a pattern not remotely unique to WC2003.

 

[Richard]

With anything before 1998, take the list with the caveats in mind although with Allott, I'm certain that speed was about right. Particularly in the 1999 WC where he got his act together physically, he was pretty pacy.

Incidentally, I've got Wasim on video against Australia in 1999 being clocked at 144km/h so even late in his career, when he put-in, he could crank it speed-wise. It was two balls after his 'catch' behind denied him the wicket of Justin Langer in Hobart (probably would have won Pakistan the game, it was that crucial). He was pretty steamed and let rip with the above ball. Adam Gilchrist showed it scant respect by pulling it through mid-wicke for four, though.

Donald when the first proper speedsters came in was still registering 93-4 mph. At 32.
So just imagine how quick he might have been before speedsters.
For the record - there were NO accurate speedsters before 1998. In 1996 they attempted to use them, for instance - and Waqar and Wasim were being clocked as 10-15mph slower than they were bowling 5 years later.
Jeff Thomson was supposedly clocked in the 1970s. What a joke.
Fact is, we'll never know how fast bowlers really were before 1998.

 

[Autobahn]

Well let's think about this

- The majority of batsmen are right handed
- So normally the ball is going away from the batsmen (that assumes the bowler is going over the wicket)
- And the swing often brings it back into the right hander

Maybe the natural angle creates something that the left-hander can exploit and susprise the batsmen with which is harder for right handers to do since not many many can swing it both ways?

I dunno.

 

[Richard]

Left-armers of course have the advantage of their stock-ball (assuming that any bowler's stock-ball will swing from leg to off to like-handers) being an inswinger-to-right-hander but it's not exactly like right-armers can't exploit it too by going round-the-wicket.
The one that swings back in, against the angle, is so much more dangerous than the one that swings in with the angle.
Likewise, anyone who can swing the ball both ways and bowl both sides of the wicket is always going to cause serious problems to anyone.
If, of course, the ball is in the right condition.

 

[Autobahn]

Plus don't lot of left armers suffer injuries which forces them to reduce their pace?

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/138167.html

 

[Richard]

You could do another list like that for right-armers, TBF.
For instance...
Craig McDermott (not as bad as Reid, of course)
Lance Klusener
Dion Nash\Chris Cairns\Shayne O'Connor\Simon Doull
Darren Gough
(I can't think of a contemporary Sri Lankan right-armer corresponding to Zoysa)
Any number of Indians - just like Nehra\Khan\Pathan, it could be argued as to whether they really had the talent ITFP.