Fast bowlers for Pre Packer XI

[Burgey]

Lillee and Davo.

Went for a bit of left arm variety. If not him, would have gone for Lindwall or Trueman. Lindwall might worry me with today's, shall we say, scrutiny in terms of 15 degrees, based on some film I've seen.

Trueman's away record is hardly dire but Davo shaded it for me, despite a not great strike rate.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Really quite surprised to see how similar the pre-WSC stats for Lillee and Willis are there - and yet popular opinion holds that it's an absolute no-contest as to who the greater bowler was.

FWIW I agree totally with the popular opinion, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.

Although it's a pre-Packer XI it also includes the figures for "real" Test Matches for those who carried on playing while the WSC was in progress. Willis had an Ashes series against the Australian 3rd XI, two series against Packerlesstan (a side minus Asif, Majid, Imran, Zaheer etc) and two series against a fairly weak New Zealand batting line up.

As for the poll, Lillee and Trueman easily.

 

[nightprowler10]

Tempted to go with Trueman and Davidson but hard to go past Lillee. Will hold off for now.

 

[Uppercut]

ditto

.......... but only if I get a 1952 vintage Trueman - if not I'd have Thommo instead

Thommo always struck me as someone who I'd have found really, really exciting to watch and initially think was incredible, but would slowly have to come to terms with the fact that he really wasn't THAT good. I'd love a bit of extreme speed in the side but I couldn't quite bring myself to take the controversial (and, as it happens, probably wrong) option.

Funny how Lillee's walking into this side but failed to get in the post-Packer side. Does this mean post-Packer fast bowling is considerably better than pre-Packer was?

 

[stephen]

Thommo always struck me as someone who I'd have found really, really exciting to watch and initially think was incredible, but would slowly have to come to terms with the fact that he really wasn't THAT good. I'd love a bit of extreme speed in the side but I couldn't quite bring myself to take the controversial (and, as it happens, probably wrong) option.

Funny how Lillee's walking into this side but failed to get in the post-Packer side. Does this mean post-Packer fast bowling is considerably better than pre-Packer was?

Yes.

Tempted to leave my response there, but post-Packer we had nearly all of the WIndies greats, most of the Pakistani greats and a good number of greats from Aus and SA. Arguably Aus had more fast bowling greats pre-Packer, and England certainly did. But nearly every other fast bowling country of consequence had their fast bowling peaks after Packer.

 

[adharcric]

Trueman and Lillee

 

[bagapath]

No Garth McKenzie, bagapath? Carried the Australian fast bowling in the 60s.

Havent voted yet, but at the moment, am looking at Lindwall and Davidson.

Would also like to cast a vote for John Snow or McKenzie as first change, should the opportunity arise.

i had kept the fast bowling cut off at bowling avg of 27 (for spinners it is 30). mckenzie averaged close to 30

 

[Ikki]

Lillee and Davo.

Went for a bit of left arm variety. If not him, would have gone for Lindwall or Trueman. Lindwall might worry me with today's, shall we say, scrutiny in terms of 15 degrees, based on some film I've seen.

Trueman's away record is hardly dire but Davo shaded it for me, despite a not great strike rate.

Well, actually, in Davidson's era his SR would be one of the best. IIRC, during his era the SR of the average bowler was 78 - the average pacer 70. Few struck in the 50s.

Still, Trueman is a freak. His SR of 49 would be awesome even today. Now imagine how good he was, even though he played in roughly the same period as Davidson. Although Davidson doesn't have a blot on his record anywhere, Trueman being so good everywhere other than WIndies puts him a shade ahead IMO.

In fact, one may ask why Trueman isn't the greatest of all-time? People think McGrath is universally good everywhere but he averaged 31 and had an SR of 63 against Pakistan. Trueman also has one record like that, the aforementioned WIndies, where he averages 32 and strikes at 70. Everywhere else he is fiendishly ahead.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Lillee and Trueman.

 

[stephen]

Lillee and Trueman rightly out in front.

Coming in behind is Davidson and Lindwall, who one would have to agree are two of the greatest Aussies to have bowled. Bit surprised that there isn't as much love for Andy Roberts though. He founded the WIndies quick bowling dynasty that dominated cricket for two decades. Then again, I could be biased since I picked him in the Jumping the Shark draft .

 

[Anil]

lillee and trueman for me too..

 

[The Sean]

Still haven't voted, but I just realised a name that has been missed from the list - the wonderful Bill Johnston, the great Aussie left-handed allrounder (hey, he averaged 102 in an English FC season ) of the 40s and 50s.

I don't imagine he'd get a single vote, but with 160 wickets at 23.91 he more than deserves a placement on the list.

 

[archie mac]

Still haven't voted, but I just realised a name that has been missed from the list - the wonderful Bill Johnston, the great Aussie left-handed allrounder (hey, he averaged 102 in an English FC season ) of the 40s and 50s.

I don't imagine he'd get a single vote, but with 160 wickets at 23.91 he more than deserves a placement on the list.

Well spotted, a versatile bowler could bowl spin and pace, plus his batting circa 53

 

[bagapath]

Well spotted, a versatile bowler could bowl spin and pace, plus his batting circa 53

these are just pace bowlers. as a "mixed" bowler Bill Johnston will feature in the next poll.

for the record here is johnston's record as an opening bowler

WA Johnston (Aus) 16 29 4331 1355 65 6/44 9/183 20.84 1.87 66.6 4 0

 

[The Sean]

Hmmm, to be fair he bowled a lot more pace than spin. He was a left-arm quick who could also slow his pace when required but as a rule formed a three-pronged pace attack with Lindwall and Miller.

But it's your poll Bagapath and you're doing a great job, so however you want to run it is fine.

 

[archie mac]

these are just pace bowlers. as a "mixed" bowler Bill Johnston will feature in the next poll.

for the record here is johnston's record as an opening bowler

WA Johnston (Aus) 16 29 4331 1355 65 6/44 9/183 20.84 1.87 66.6 4 0

Was a class act

 

[bagapath]

Hmmm, to be fair he bowled a lot more pace than spin. He was a left-arm quick who could also slow his pace when required but as a rule formed a three-pronged pace attack with Lindwall and Miller.

But it's your poll Bagapath and you're doing a great job, so however you want to run it is fine.

you will have the option of choosing him in the next poll for bowlers

 

[archie mac]

Hmmm, to be fair he bowled a lot more pace than spin. He was a left-arm quick who could also slow his pace when required but as a rule formed a three-pronged pace attack with Lindwall and Miller.

But it's your poll Bagapath and you're doing a great job, so however you want to run it is fine.

From memory he changed from spin to speed on the recommendation of Bradman, but still bowled it on occassions

 

[The Sean]

Interesting- why those two, and more specifically, why not Trueman?

If there is a tie involving Lindwall we will count yours in. but as uppercut asked, why not trueman?

Looking back at the career numbers that these two great fast bowlers assembled, it's hard not to vote for Trueman - as good as Lindwall's record is, Trueman's is better in most aspects. However Lindwall is one of those cricketers who is rated so exceptionally highly by those who played with and against him that it's hard to ignore - indeed, most of the accounts I've read comparing the fast men of the pre-70s era seem to rate Lindwall the highest of all, and even to this day there are those who saw him in action who claim that no one since - not Lillee, Marshall or anyone else - has been better.

It's true that there's probably a nostalgic element to this, a remembrance of that smooth, controlled run up and beautifully dynamic round-arm action. However I can't believe that such a reputation can be written off 100% as pure nostalgia, and there must be a reason that the likes of Hutton, Compton, Graveney, Hassett and Harvey claimed he was the very best they ever saw.

 

[The Sean]

Went Lillee and Lindwall in the end. Trueman and Davo desperately unlucky.

Well, Fred's not that unlucky - he's romping in the vote.