Fast Bowler Survival - 2020 edition

[stephen]

Grand Final

Malcolm Marshall 8 d Glenn McGrath 6

Consolation Final

Richard Hadlee 8 d Curtly Ambrose 6

After dominating everyone up until this point, Malcolm Marshall squeezes just ahead of Glenn McGrath for the champion's crown. Richard Hadlee beat Curtly Ambrose for third place by the exact same margin.

Thank you to everyone who voted, I had a lot of fun with this competition. Here is the definitive ranking of fast bowlers according to cricketweb (and my new cheat sheet for drafting fast bowlers):


105 Trevor Goddard
104 Bob Woolmer
103 Eddie Barlow
102 Michael Kasprowicz
101 Arthur Fielder
100 Graham Dilley
99 Ben Hilfenhaus
98 Mohammad Abbas
97 Tony Gray
96 Peter Lever
95 Amar Singh
94 Richard Collinge
93 Dick Motz
92 Patrick Patterson
91 Peter Siddle
90 Bill Voce
89 Geoff Arnold
88 Jasprit Bumrah
87 Frank Foster
86 John Lever
85 Peter Loader
84 Javagal Srinath
83 Ernie Toshack
82 Geoff Lawson
81 Chris Old
80 Bruce Taylor
79 Mohammad Nissar
78 Rodney Hogg
77 Kemar Roach
76 Mohammed Shami
75 Makhaya Ntini
74 Andrew Flintoff
73 Craig McDermott
72 Charlie Griffith
71 Peter Heine
70 Paul Reiffel
69 Gubby Allen
68 Billy Barnes
67 Josh Hazlewood
66 Tom Richardson
65 Ryan Harris
64 Jack Gregory
63 Morné Morkel
62 Ken Farnes
61 Merv Hughes
60 Ted McDonald
59 Trent Boult
58 Manny Martindale
57 Wayne Daniel
56 Mitchell Starc
55 Terry Alderman
54 Mitchell Johnson
53 Stuart Broad
52 Jack Cowie
51 Neil Wagner
50 Graham McKenzie
49 Kagiso Rabada
48 Bruce Reid
47 Vernon Philander
46 Fazal Mahmood
45 Bill Johnston
44 Colin Croft
43 Jeff Thompson
42 Ian Botham
41 Kapil Dev
40 Charlie Turner
39 Jason Gillespie
38 Ian Bishop
37 Frank Tyson
36 Peter Pollock
35 Bob Willis
34 James Anderson
33 Keith Miller
32 John Snow
31 Shoaib Akhtar
30 Neil Adcock
29 Shane Bond
28 Harold Larwood
27 Maurice Tate
26 Mike Procter
25 Wes Hall
24 Brian Statham
23 Pat Cummins
22 Frederick Spofforth
21 Alec Bedser
20 Courtney Walsh
19 George Lohmann
18 Shaun Pollock
17 Andy Roberts
16 Ray Lindwall
15 Alan Davidson
14 Michael Holding
13 Allan Donald
12 Waqar Younis
11 Imran Khan
10 Fred Trueman
9 Sydney Barnes
8 Dennis Lillee
7 Wasim Akram
6 Joel Garner
5 Dale Steyn
4 Curtly Ambrose
3 Richard Hadlee
2 Glenn McGrath
1 Malcolm Marshall

 

[stephen]

For those who are curious, here are the differences between the bowlers who were ranked last time around:

Rank Bowler OldRank Difference %Difference

79	Mohammad Nissar	38	-41	-107.89%
78	Rodney Hogg			
77	Kemar Roach			
76	Mohammed Shami			
75	Makhaya Ntini			
74	Andrew Flintoff			
73	Craig McDermott			
72	Charlie Griffith			
71	Peter Heine			
70	Paul Reiffel			
69	Gubby Allen			
68	Billy Barnes			
67	Josh Hazlewood			
66	Tom Richardson			
65	Ryan Harris			
64	Jack Gregory	37	-27	-72.97%
63	Morné Morkel			
62	Ken Farnes			
61	Merv Hughes			
60	Ted McDonald			
59	Trent Boult			
58	Manny Martindale			
57	Wayne Daniel			
56	Mitchell Starc			
55	Terry Alderman			
54	Mitchell Johnson			
53	Stuart Broad			
52	Jack Cowie	42	-10	-23.81%
51	Neil Wagner			
50	Graham McKenzie			
49	Kagiso Rabada			
48	Bruce Reid	39	-9	-23.08%
47	Vernon Philander			
46	Fazal Mahmood	34	-12	-35.29%
45	Bill Johnston			
44	Colin Croft			
43	Jeff Thompson	24	-19	-79.17%
42	Ian Botham	31	-11	-35.48%
41	Kapil Dev	41	0	0.00%
40	Charlie Turner			
39	Jason Gillespie	40	1	2.50%
38	Ian Bishop	43	5	11.63%
37	Frank Tyson	17	-20	-117.65%
36	Peter Pollock	33	-3	-9.09%
35	Bob Willis	25	-10	-40.00%
34	James Anderson			
33	Keith Miller	20	-13	-65.00%
32	John Snow	23	-9	-39.13%
31	Shoaib Akhtar	44	13	29.55%
30	Neil Adcock	27	-3	-11.11%
29	Shane Bond	22	-7	-31.82%
28	Harold Larwood	16	-12	-75.00%
27	Maurice Tate	29	2	6.90%
26	Mike Procter			
25	Wes Hall	32	7	21.88%
24	Brian Statham	28	4	14.29%
23	Pat Cummins			
22	Frederick Spofforth	36	14	38.89%
21	Alec Bedser	35	14	40.00%
20	Courtney Walsh	26	6	23.08%
19	George Lohmann	21	2	9.52%
18	Shaun Pollock	19	1	5.26%
17	Andy Roberts	18	1	5.56%
16	Ray Lindwall	13	-3	-23.08%
15	Alan Davidson	14	-1	-7.14%
14	Michael Holding	12	-2	-16.67%
13	Allan Donald	15	2	13.33%
12	Waqar Younis	6	-6	-100.00%
11	Imran Khan	5	-6	-120.00%
10	Fred Trueman	9	-1	-11.11%
9	Sydney Barnes	10	1	10.00%
8	Dennis Lillee	7	-1	-14.29%
7	Wasim Akram	8	1	12.50%
6	Joel Garner	11	5	45.45%
5	Dale Steyn	30	25	83.33%
4	Curtly Ambrose	4	0	0.00%
3	Richard Hadlee	2	-1	-50.00%
2	Glenn McGrath	3	1	33.33%
1	Malcolm Marshall	1	0	0.00%

 

[honestbharani]

Steyn is a level above Donald. Hence Proved.

 

[stephen]

The big winner this time around was Dale Steyn who jumped 83% (25 places) in the last decade.

Spoffoth was ranked much higher too and Bedser gained substantially in this poll.

Unsurprisingly the lower ranked bowlers in the last poll tended to get squeezed out more than the higher ranked ones. Of the top bowlers, Waqar and Imran's rating took the biggest hit, both dropping six places (they were ranked 6 and 5 last time). Larwood, Tyson, Botham and Miller all took a double digit hit in rankings over the last decade.

Cummins is in a similar position to Steyn in 2010 - you know he's going to become an ATG, but how high can he rise. He was ranked 23 in this poll, which is enormous for a guy who has effectively only had a three and a half year career thus far.

 

[trundler]

My top 5 aligns with the forum's. That is all.

 

[stephen]

My top 5 aligns with the forum's. That is all.

You are the forum.

 

[kingkallis]

For those who are curious, here are the differences between the bowlers who were ranked last time around:

Rank Bowler OldRank Difference %Difference

79	Mohammad Nissar	38	-41	-107.89%
78	Rodney Hogg			
77	Kemar Roach			
76	Mohammed Shami			
75	Makhaya Ntini			
74	Andrew Flintoff			
73	Craig McDermott			
72	Charlie Griffith			
71	Peter Heine			
70	Paul Reiffel			
69	Gubby Allen			
68	Billy Barnes			
67	Josh Hazlewood			
66	Tom Richardson			
65	Ryan Harris			
64	Jack Gregory	37	-27	-72.97%
63	Morné Morkel			
62	Ken Farnes			
61	Merv Hughes			
60	Ted McDonald			
59	Trent Boult			
58	Manny Martindale			
57	Wayne Daniel			
56	Mitchell Starc			
55	Terry Alderman			
54	Mitchell Johnson			
53	Stuart Broad			
52	Jack Cowie	42	-10	-23.81%
51	Neil Wagner			
50	Graham McKenzie			
49	Kagiso Rabada			
48	Bruce Reid	39	-9	-23.08%
47	Vernon Philander			
46	Fazal Mahmood	34	-12	-35.29%
45	Bill Johnston			
44	Colin Croft			
43	Jeff Thompson	24	-19	-79.17%
42	Ian Botham	31	-11	-35.48%
41	Kapil Dev	41	0	0.00%
40	Charlie Turner			
39	Jason Gillespie	40	1	2.50%
38	Ian Bishop	43	5	11.63%
37	Frank Tyson	17	-20	-117.65%
36	Peter Pollock	33	-3	-9.09%
35	Bob Willis	25	-10	-40.00%
34	James Anderson			
33	Keith Miller	20	-13	-65.00%
32	John Snow	23	-9	-39.13%
31	Shoaib Akhtar	44	13	29.55%
30	Neil Adcock	27	-3	-11.11%
29	Shane Bond	22	-7	-31.82%
28	Harold Larwood	16	-12	-75.00%
27	Maurice Tate	29	2	6.90%
26	Mike Procter			
25	Wes Hall	32	7	21.88%
24	Brian Statham	28	4	14.29%
23	Pat Cummins			
22	Frederick Spofforth	36	14	38.89%
21	Alec Bedser	35	14	40.00%
20	Courtney Walsh	26	6	23.08%
19	George Lohmann	21	2	9.52%
18	Shaun Pollock	19	1	5.26%
17	Andy Roberts	18	1	5.56%
16	Ray Lindwall	13	-3	-23.08%
15	Alan Davidson	14	-1	-7.14%
14	Michael Holding	12	-2	-16.67%
13	Allan Donald	15	2	13.33%
12	Waqar Younis	6	-6	-100.00%
11	Imran Khan	5	-6	-120.00%
10	Fred Trueman	9	-1	-11.11%
9	Sydney Barnes	10	1	10.00%
8	Dennis Lillee	7	-1	-14.29%
7	Wasim Akram	8	1	12.50%
6	Joel Garner	11	5	45.45%
5	Dale Steyn	30	25	83.33%
4	Curtly Ambrose	4	0	0.00%
3	Richard Hadlee	2	-1	-50.00%
2	Glenn McGrath	3	1	33.33%
1	Malcolm Marshall	1	0	0.00%

This looks much more accurate now.

 

[stephen]

This looks much more accurate now.

I think so too, with the exception of one or two players who I feel are incorrectly rated (Bedser ahead of Anderson makes me scratch my head).

 

[kingkallis]

I think so too, with the exception of one or two players who I feel are incorrectly rated (Bedser ahead of Anderson makes me scratch my head).

Anderson will get a place in Top 20-25 by 2025. Look at the jump of Steyn.

 

[stephen]

Anderson will get a place in Top 20-25 by 2025. Look at the jump of Steyn.

I don't know. Steyn jumped because his career was only half way through in 2010. Anderson is nearly done (he'd better be nearly done given he's played more tests than Shane Warne now!). I think it's fair to say his overall average won't get below 26. I know average isn't everything but it is the base point of comparison between bowlers. You need a really good reason why a guy with an average of 26 is better than that average suggests. For Roberts it was because he was the first of the two generations of WIndies greats. For Shoaib it was because he was so quick. To make a case for Anderson you really have to discount large chunks of his record.

Sheer volume of wickets is like sheer volume of runs - people give it weight, but not too much. I'm not sure many folks rate Cook over Boycott. Or Broad over Lindwall.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

I should probably pull up some vids of Garner, huh. I think I'd vote for quite a few of the Aussies I denigrated above him.

And CW really really hates Anderson for obvious reasons, almost as obvious as why some people here dislike Lillee

 

[stephen]

I should probably pull up some vids of Garner, huh. I think I'd vote for quite a few of the Aussies I denigrated above him.

And CW really really hates Anderson for obvious reasons, almost as obvious as why some people here dislike Lillee

Hate is too strong of a word. I think most people on here just think that Jimmy is an extremely niche bowler - unplayable in the right conditions and a bit innocuous in others. Certainly he doesn't have the venom to take wickets on dead tracks like McGrath/Steyn and other greats.

 

[stephen]

Australia's top bowlers:

McGrath
Lillee
Davidson
Lindwall
Spofforth
Cummins
Miller
Gillespie
Turner
Thompson
Johnston
Reid
McKenzie
Johnson
Alderman
Starc
McDonald
Hughes
Gregory
Harris
Hazlewood
Reiffel
McDermott
Hogg
Lawson
Toshack
Siddle
Hilfenhaus
Kasprowicz

 

[ankitj]

Wait, we didn't have Zaheer Khan in this exercise?

I think Zaheer > Srinath.

 

[harsh.ag]

1. McGrath
2. Marshall
3. Hadlee
4. Steyn
5. Ambrose
6. Wasim
7. Donald
8. Garner
9. Imran
10. Lillee

Donald and Imran come in for Trueman and Barnes from this list.

 

[ankitj]

For me, it will go:

1. Marshall
2. Hadlee
3. McGrath
4. Ambrose
5. Steyn
6. Trueman
7. Donald
8. Imran
9. Lillee
10. Akram

Not including Barnes for difficulty of classification, else he will be right on top, #1 or #2

 

[stephen]

Wait, we didn't have Zaheer Khan in this exercise?

I think Zaheer > Srinath.

Wasn't nominated

 

[BoyBrumby]

Kudos to Stevo for the hard yards.

Can't say I agree with the result, when are people going to learn democracy simply doesn't work but the people have spoken.

 

[Slifer]

My top ten looks something like this

Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Imran
Steyn
Ambrose
Donald
Lillee
Wasim
Trueman


Yes I know, I have Steyn above Donald. My argument was never that Donald was better. I just took issue with people saying Steyn was easily or inarguably better.

 

[smash84]

Pretty decent list. Garner a bit higher than i would have thought, while Imran should have been top 10 at least. Should have finished higher than Lillee and Wasim at the very least (who probably finished higher because of luck of his draw).

Good job stephen.