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Fair enough Freddy....I eat my words
- Thread starter Zinzan
- Start date
simmy
International Regular
Flintoff is second best seamer in the world at the moment for me behind McGrath obv.
I think he's much a superior bowler than Shaoib as his ability to bowl on flat pitches with reverse swing is exceptional.
Who knows... when McGrath retires, and Harmison bowling consistently like he did at Lords, Jones bowling like he has since Lords... the top three seamers could all be English!
I actually thought that Freddie was a bit overrated before the series started but now, against the best, he is scoring hundreds and taking stack loads of wickets bowling swing at 90mph.
Better than Botham by the end of his career. Mark my words.
I think he's much a superior bowler than Shaoib as his ability to bowl on flat pitches with reverse swing is exceptional.
Who knows... when McGrath retires, and Harmison bowling consistently like he did at Lords, Jones bowling like he has since Lords... the top three seamers could all be English!
I actually thought that Freddie was a bit overrated before the series started but now, against the best, he is scoring hundreds and taking stack loads of wickets bowling swing at 90mph.
Better than Botham by the end of his career. Mark my words.
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Flintoff is a very good bowler but he has to start taking bags of wickets more consistently before he can be considered the second best seamer in the world. He has a tendancy to bowl a really good spell, get one wicket and then go off again after 5 overs because Vaughan doesn't want to overwork him. That's fine, but it means he's never going to rip through sides the way someone like Shoaib can.
tassietiger
U19 Debutant
Personally, I'd take Simon Jones or Stephen Harmison over Flintoff if we're looking purely at the bowling aspect...
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Vaughan has a funny way of showing it then! Overs bowled by English bowlers thus far:FaaipDeOiad said:
Flintoff: 160.0
Harmison: 138.3
Giles: 137.0
Jones:102.0
Hoggard: 98.0
Vaughan overbowling Fred is one of my biggest worries this side of Jones's ankle. Fred isn't going to refuse because, well no seamer worth his salt would & he has a heart the size of Lancashire, but his action must take a lot out of his body.
Barney Rubble
International Coach
And he did hit 55* off 16 balls against Berkshire or whoever it was, can't forget that......aussie said:of course he did he was Lancastrian
EDIT: Buckinghamshire, sorry.
Last edited:
superkingdave
Hall of Fame Member
If chapple had played a few ODI's or a test or so a few years ago, i don't think he would have done any worse than some of the players England have picked over the years.
tooextracool
International Coach
one of your best posts.zinzan12 said:As someone who's always labelled Flintoff as an overated Test cricketer, I like to say for the record he's proved me totally wrong.
Against the best opposition under the extreme pressure and expectation he's been nothing short of outstanding !!!
I always thought he'd be more than handy with the ball, but thought the Aussies would find weaknesses in his batting technique. Obviously this hasn't happened, therefore time for me to eat my words.
Well done Flintoff !!!!
As for my pre-ashes prediction of 4-5 nil to Australia.......Another red face
all sarcasm aside, good on you for admitting that you got this one wrong.
tooextracool
International Coach
thered be a strong argument as to why he isnt in the top 5 at the moment. i can see the case for 3 bowlers being better than him-mcgrath, warne and murali.FaaipDeOiad said:
tooextracool
International Coach
theres no point in ripping through sides if you cant do it fairly regularly.FaaipDeOiad said:
tooextracool
International Coach
cant see how harmison is as good as flintoff, relies too much on the wicket. jones is a completely different story, because assuming he doesnt get injured, i'd be extremely surprised if he isnt in the top 2-3 bowlers in the world in a few years. swinging the new ball and the old balls both ways at 90 mph is something very very rare indeed.tassietiger said:
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Why not? It wins matches.tooextracool said:
The point is that taking 3/60 from 15 overs or whatever is a good effort but it's not going to turn a game on its head.
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
It isn't ALWAYS going to have turned a game on its head, but it could well have.FaaipDeOiad said:
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah well, it could concievably, but really I think almost all of the time a team can recover from losing three wickets. I'm not exactly sure why he doesn't do it mind you, because Flintoff certainly bowls well enough to take bags of wickets, but the fact that he's been among the best bowlers in this series and yet doesn't have a 5 wicket haul while Jones has two, Warne and McGrath both have one and so on is telling.vic_orthdox said:
tooextracool
International Coach
and a 5/25 in one game followed by 3-4 poor games is in no way better than a 3/60 in 6 out of 8 innings or so. because if you look at it carefully, one bowler has been a liability for 3 games despite winning one game while the other has played an important hand towards winning 3 out of 4 games.FaaipDeOiad said: