Establishing the best decade for cricket: Finding the ATG XI from 12 decades of test cricket - then having a KO tourney to decide the best

[a massive zebra]

1870s/80s/90s:

WG Grace* 6
Bobby Abel
Arthur Shrewsbury
KS Ranji
Billy Murdoch
AG Steel 5
Jack Blackham +
Bobby Peel 4
George Lohmann 2
Charlie Turner 3
Fred Spofforth 1

1900s/1910s:

Jack Hobbs
Victor Trumper
Clem Hill
Aubrey Faulkner 5
Stanley Jackson *
Monty Noble 6
Frank Foster 2
Dick Lilley +
Tibby Cotter 3
Sydney Barnes 1
Colin Blythe 4

1920s:

Jack Hobbs
Herb Sutcliffe
Charlie Macartney 7
Wally Hammond 5
Herbie Taylor *
Frank Woolley 6
Jack Gregory 2
Maurice Tate 1
Bert Oldfield +
Clarrie Grimmett 4
Ted Mcdonald 3

1930s:

Len Hutton
Bruce Mitchell
Don Bradman *
George Headley
Wally Hammond 5
Stan McCabe 6
Les Ames +
Harold Larwood 1
Hedley Verity 4
Bill O'Reilly 3
Manny Martindale 2

1940s:

Len Hutton
Arthur Morris
Don Bradman *
Denis Compton 5
Dudley Nourse
Everton Weekes
Keith Miller 2
Don Tallon+
Ray Lindwall 1
Jack Cowie 3
Bill Johnston 4

1950s:

Len Hutton *
Hanif Mohammad
Neil Harvey
Everton Weekes
Clyde Walcott
Gary Sobers 5
John Waite +
Allan Davidson 3
Jim Laker 4
Alec Bedser 2
Fred Trueman 1

1960s:

Bob Simpson * 6
Bill Lawry
Ken Barrington
Graeme Pollock
Rohan Kanhai
Gary Sobers 5
Denis Lindsay +
Allan Davidson 2
Peter Pollock 3
Fred Trueman 1
Lance Gibbs 4

1970s:

Geoff Boycott
Sunil Gavaskar
Viv Richards
Greg Chappell *
Javed Miandad
Ian Botham 5
Allan Knott +
Derek Underwood 4
Dennis Lillee 1
Andy Roberts 2
Jeff Thomson 3


1980s:

Sunil Gavaskar
Gordon Greenidge
Viv Richards
Javed Miandad
Allan Border
Imran Khan 3 *
Jeff Dujon +
Kapil Dev 5
RichardHadlee 2
Malcolm Marshall 1
Joel Garner 4

1990s:

Graham Gooch *
Saeed Anwar
Brian Lara
Sachin Tendaulker
Steve Waugh 5
Aravinda De Silva 6
Ian Healy +
Wasim Akram 2
Shane Warne 4
Curtley Ambrose 1
Allan Donald 3

Yes, that esteemed cricketer named Sachin Tendaulker.

 

[stephen]

If you're talking about overseas records then every Test ever played outside Tasmania is an overseas Test for Ricky Ponting. In which his average would probably be over 50.

Australia landscape wise is just as big as the subcontinent. Traveling from one side of Australia to the other is far greater then other countries. For someone from NSW, Victoria or Queensland, playing in Perth or Tasmania or even Darwin wouldn't exactly feel like "home".

Hayden and Sehwag as openers.

I don't buy this. Australia is as varied as India is in its pitches. Possibly even less so these days. And Australian players have the advantage of the shield to familiarise themselves with the pitches around the country.

I mean if an international player plays half their games at home and they play 200 internationals in their career, an Australian would play around 15-20 times at each of the major Australian grounds. It's going to be familiar.

 

[Line and Length]

Sachin
Kallis
Murali

 

[The Sean]

Lara
Kallis

McGain

 

[Raz0r6ack]

I don't buy this. Australia is as varied as India is in its pitches. Possibly even less so these days. And Australian players have the advantage of the shield to familiarise themselves with the pitches around the country.

I mean if an international player plays half their games at home and they play 200 internationals in their career, an Australian would play around 15-20 times at each of the major Australian grounds. It's going to be familiar.

Are they going to be any more familiarized with those conditions then subcontient players who play large chunks of their career in Asia? Muralitharan for example played 97 of his 133 Tests in Asia.

This is why I'm not a fan of this home/away stronghold view when judging players because it doesn't tell the whole story. Maybe for some countries but not so much others.

The travel from Perth to Melbourne is considered a big deal in the AFL. That's probably why there is less Shield games in Australia as opposed to county games in England.

 

[_00_deathscar]

If you're talking about overseas records then every Test ever played outside Tasmania is an overseas Test for Ricky Ponting. In which his average would probably be over 50.

Australia landscape wise is just as big as the subcontinent. Traveling from one side of Australia to the other is far greater then other countries. For someone from NSW, Victoria or Queensland, playing in Perth or Tasmania or even Darwin wouldn't exactly feel like "home".

Hayden and Sehwag as openers.

What in the name of holy horse****s is this new lame excuse now? This is legitimately worse than “he’s got a broken fingernail”

 

[Slifer]

What in the name of holy horse****s is this new lame excuse now? This is legitimately worse than “he’s got a broken fingernail”

Yeah that post was lol and pretty desperate. For all intents and purposes, most West Indians should have their records reevaluated since the WI isn't a country. Therefore, any test Lara played outside of Trinidad should be an away test....lol lol

 

[honestbharani]

What in the name of holy horse****s is this new lame excuse now? This is legitimately worse than “he’s got a broken fingernail”

Come on man, this also means every test played outside of the home cities of Indian players is an overseas test, given even the language and food is different in each state in India.

It also means Sehwag is the greatest opener of all time. Just look at his away (non Delhi) record.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Pakistanis playing in the UAE have got a point, but Ponting on mainland Australia???

 

[stephen]

Are they going to be any more familiarized with those conditions then subcontient players who play large chunks of their career in Asia? Muralitharan for example played 97 of his 133 Tests in Asia.

This is why I'm not a fan of this home/away stronghold view when judging players because it doesn't tell the whole story. Maybe for some countries but not so much others.

The travel from Perth to Melbourne is considered a big deal in the AFL. That's probably why there is less Shield games in Australia as opposed to county games in England.

At best here you have a kernel of truth - that playing conditions change over geographic distances.

The problem is that there's often more variability in local cricket than there is between international quality venues. So if you take it to that extreme, you might as well break things down by venue/ atmospheric conditions/ temperature/ date. It's not useful.

The reason we tend to talk about home records vs away records is that players are far more familiar with the specific grounds and local conditions in their home country than in away conditions. They can talk to the local groundsmen, prepare wickets that feel favourable to their team and generally tip the odds in their favour. They know the local food joints and tend to find it palatable. At times that even meant pressuring local umpires to give favourable decisions. All of this gives a home advantage of sorts.

So home vs away is not necessarily about the specifics of the pitches themselves and their distances from each other. It's about the familiarity with the wickets, the familiarity with the geography, the development of technique to suit those conditions and the local influence your team has over pitch preparations.

The fact that Ponting is from Tasmania may explain his second head but it doesn't mean that we should consider Brisbane to be overseas for him.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

At best here you have a kernel of truth - that playing conditions change over geographic distances.

The problem is that there's often more variability in local cricket than there is between international quality venues. So if you take it to that extreme, you might as well break things down by venue/ atmospheric conditions/ temperature/ date. It's not useful.

The reason we tend to talk about home records vs away records is that players are far more familiar with the specific grounds and local conditions in their home country than in away conditions. They can talk to the local groundsmen, prepare wickets that feel favourable to their team and generally tip the odds in their favour. They know the local food joints and tend to find it palatable. At times that even meant pressuring local umpires to give favourable decisions. All of this gives a home advantage of sorts.

So home vs away is not necessarily about the specifics of the pitches themselves and their distances from each other. It's about the familiarity with the wickets, the familiarity with the geography, the development of technique to suit those conditions and the local influence your team has over pitch preparations.

The fact that Ponting is from Tasmania may explain his second head but it doesn't mean that we should consider Brisbane to be overseas for him.

The Ponting/Tasmania comment was clearly not a serious suggestion that Pontings away record should be counted for all Tests outside of Tasmania.

It was nitpicking sarcasm over the "overseas" comment regarding Sehwag, Dravid, Hayden, Ponting, etc because Tasmania is overseas from the rest of Australia.

The larger point is that conditions in the subcontinent are just as bout as variable conditions across Australia. As well as travelling distances across some Australia states are similar to cross country travel in Asia.

Because of this the home/away records skews in favour of subcontient players vs Australian players and that a subcontinent players true away record is outside the subcontinent. And that if people feel otherwise then compare states.

Given India and Pakistan used to be the same country I don't see it as lol and desperate.

 

[sunilz]

The Ponting/Tasmania comment was clearly not a serious suggestion that Pontings away record should be counted for all Tests outside of Tasmania.

It was nitpicking sarcasm over the "overseas" comment regarding Sehwag, Dravid, Hayden, Ponting, etc because Tasmania is overseas from the rest of Australia.

The larger point is that conditions in the subcontinent are just as bout as variable conditions across Australia. As well as travelling distances across some Australia states are similar to cross country travel in Asia.

Because of this the home/away records skews in favour of subcontient players vs Australian players and that a subcontinent players true away record is outside the subcontinent. And that if people feel otherwise then compare states.

Given India and Pakistan used to be the same country I don't see it as lol and desperate.

Home crowd support matters. Still can't forget how much pressure Ishant must have felt on his 1st tour to Aus in the presence of about 50 000 hostile Aussie crowd. Same can be said for opposition players in Ind.

 

[Slifer]

The Ponting/Tasmania comment was clearly not a serious suggestion that Pontings away record should be counted for all Tests outside of Tasmania.

It was nitpicking sarcasm over the "overseas" comment regarding Sehwag, Dravid, Hayden, Ponting, etc because Tasmania is overseas from the rest of Australia.

The larger point is that conditions in the subcontinent are just as bout as variable conditions across Australia. As well as travelling distances across some Australia states are similar to cross country travel in Asia.

Because of this the home/away records skews in favour of subcontient players vs Australian players and that a subcontinent players true away record is outside the subcontinent. And that if people feel otherwise then compare states.

Given India and Pakistan used to be the same country I don't see it as lol and desperate.

It's not just about the pitches. It's the customs, the crowds and other intangibles. You literally need a passport to travel among Asian countries, not so among states in Australia. Yeah pitches in Australia probably vary but you can bet that all the crowds would be rooting against whomever Australia is playing against.

I can imagine the food choices across Asian countries varying as well, and security screening etc. All makes for completely different experiences.

 

[mr_mister]

number 4:

sachin 4
dravid 7
sanga 1
kallis 4
moyo 1

number 5:

kallis 11
dravid 1
sanga 3
lara 2
sachin 1

spinner:

murali 17
mcgain 1


Hayden
Smith
Ponting
Dravid
Kallis
-
-
-
Steyn
Murali
McGrath


pick the keeper
pick the 4th bowler

 

[mr_mister]

Gilly and Shoaib

McGrath and Pollock are two very similar bowlers. Shoaib's amazing average and strikerate for the decade combined with his ATG support in the bowling lineup could be a silver bullet

 

[sunilz]

Gilly
Warne

Warne > Shoaib irrespective of the pitch

 

[Bolo.]

India arguably have the most varied pitches in the world (massive variation in amounts of grass and turn/seam and some difference in pace/bounce). But pitches are just a part of conditions. They have amongst the highest amount in variation between grounds in swing (different altitudes, distances from the sea, and weather patterns). They also use a different ball. Comparing a place like Aus to India alone is comical, let alone the whole SC.

 

[honestbharani]

Gilly
Shoaib

 

[srbhkshk]

Gilly
Pollock

 

[ma1978]

Gilchrist
Warney