Establishing the best decade for cricket: Finding the ATG XI from 12 decades of test cricket - then having a KO tourney to decide the best

[sunilz]

Oops.

How clever of you to not include your post where you said you would pick Ponting over Dravid in Wi ?

 

[stephen]

Take out Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, and the equation is far more lop sided in Sehwag's favour. Sehwag bullied opposition on flat tracks, but he did that against proper opposition. He wasn't a minnow basher.

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The only metric on which Sehwag was superior, even with minnows removed, is batting average (which comes out even if you ignore Hayden's record post mid 2008 where he was clearly past it). Hayden scored more runs, more hundreds, more 50s and hit his hundreds at a faster rate regardless of whether you're looking at tests per hundred or innings per hundred.

Sehwag was better at turning 100 into 200, but Hayden was more reliable, prolific and consistent in the era.

 

[sunilz]

The only metric on which Sehwag was superior, even with minnows removed, is batting average (which comes out even if you ignore Hayden's record post mid 2008 where he was clearly past it). Hayden scored more runs, more hundreds, more 50s and hit his hundreds at a faster rate regardless of whether you're looking at tests per hundred or innings per hundred.

Sehwag was better at turning 100 into 200, but Hayden was more reliable, prolific and consistent in the era.

A person who rates Smith over Tendulkar in test is now saying we shouldn't consider average and consider total runs, 100s ,50s ?

 

[stephen]

How clever of you to not include your post where you said you would pick Ponting over Dravid in Wi ?

You wanted to know who brought up the West Indies. You did. All I did was look at all of the countries instead of cherry picking the countries that made my argument stronger.

In the period in question, Ponting had a higher batting average in the West Indies than Dravid. You then countered this by offering up a) Dravid's record in 1997 (despite this being an 00s team); then b) bringing up specific innings.

You are welcome to believe that Dravid was better than Ponting in the 00s, for whatever reason you wish. But if you say something, expect it to be fact checked and have its logic scrutinised.

 

[stephen]

A person who rates Smith over Tendulkar in test is now saying we shouldn't consider average and consider total runs, 100s ,50s ?

I'm not trying to advocate picking Smith over Tendulkar in a 90s team, even if I do believe he was a better player.

And I think you'll find that Smith has a much better rate of innings per hundred (you are welcome to fact check that, I could be wrong).

 

[harsh.ag]

Hayden and Smith
Dravid
McGrath and Akhtar

@sunilz please stop. @stephen is Oz biased, but not odiously so and it shouldn't make him a figure to attack needlessly.

@stephen Please stop trying to pretend there is anything wrong with picking Sehwag and Dravid over Hayden and Ponting

Went with Dravid because he's the kind of guy I want in the team much more than Ponting.

Dravid opening would be cool too. Can then dump both Hayden and Sehwag with their poor techniques.

 

[h_hurricane]

The only metric on which Sehwag was superior, even with minnows removed, is batting average (which comes out even if you ignore Hayden's record post mid 2008 where he was clearly past it). Hayden scored more runs, more hundreds, more 50s and hit his hundreds at a faster rate regardless of whether you're looking at tests per hundred or innings per hundred.

Sehwag was better at turning 100 into 200, but Hayden was more reliable, prolific and consistent in the era.

Agree that Hayden was a bit more consistent than Sehwag.

But if Hayden's record suffered because of playing too long until 2008, one should also consider that he came back to the team as a fully formed 29 year old after his initial struggles in the prior decade, as opposed to Sehwag who was thrown into the deep end as an opener when he was barely 23.

 

[harsh.ag]

Sehwag unlucky to miss out. Would prefer to watch him bat over Hayden though. Smith just tough as nails.

 

[The Sean]

The best thing is out of 9 vote Hayden has received in other thread , 4 are from Indian posters. And I myself have voted for Smith.?

You voted for Hayden to partner Smith in this team too and then changed it to Sehwag. Is Stephen annoying you that much?

 

[CricAddict]

Hayden
Sehwag
Ponting
Mcgrath
Pollock

 

[_00_deathscar]

@stephen going nuts because someone chose Sehwag/Smith over Hayden is ridiculous. There's not much to choose between those openers, with Cook maybe just a bit further behind. They all had their strengths and weaknesses, and ther really isn't that much to separate them. It's not like someone chose Srinath over McGrath for ****'s sake.

 

[ankitj]

If someone wanted to just talk about Srinath, it would be OK to vote for Srinath over McGrath

 

[The Sean]

Is there a good left armer from the 00s? If not, Akhtar will make a great 3rd seamer.

Steyn, McGrath, Akhtar, Murali and maybe Flintoff as the allrounder will be a great attack.

Do you mean Flintoff plus Kallis, or Flintoff instead of Kallis?

I actually reckon Flintoff plus Kallis strengthens the case for Warne. If two spinners meant you're asking Kallis to be the third seamer then I could see why you'd be against it (though I'd still pick Warne!). However, if for example we're playing Kallis and five and Flintoff at six (which I'd be fine with given we'll have Gilly at seven) then you could have McGrath-Steyn-Flintoff-Murali-Warne with Kallis as an incredible sixth bowling option. That's an amazingly strong and balanced attack.

I'm often reticent about two spinners, but when those two spinners are the two GOATs then in my opinion you pick them and worry about the rest later. And by doing so we'd have probably three of the top five bowlers of all time on the same team. That's too good a thing to pass up.

 

[_00_deathscar]

For the record, Sehwag was also an absolute beast if you discount specific years, specifically his awful decline.

I'd posted it before, but between 2003-2010 (discounting his 2 early years and his awful decline), he played 72 tests @ 56.18. That's a beastly record in and of itself, even with the flat track era (not too dissimilar from Hayden's in any case), all while scoring at ~84 SR.
That came with an average of 53 from 37 away tests at ~85 SR.

If you further only account for him opening, it's an average of 57
Away average of 54.

 

[srbhkshk]

Sehwag , Hayden
Ponting
McGrath , Steyn

Tried to not go for Stats too much within the comparison and just tried to remember which guys were actually rated higher during the decade.

Ponting was definitely rated higher than Dravid, almost in the league of Sachin and Lara. Sehwag and Hayden were rated fractionally better than Smith and he was too much of a Zaheer bunny anyway. McGrath the obvious selection and Steyn was a lot more destructive compared to Pollock.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Tried to not go for Stats too much within the comparison and just tried to remember which guys were actually rated higher during the decade.

Ponting was definitely rated higher than Dravid, almost in the league of Sachin and Lara.

But then you'd pick Dravid as Dravid was rated better than Sachin
[/hipster]

 

[mr_mister]

Hayden 15 votes
Smith 14 votes
Sehwag 12 votes

Ponting much more comfortably over Dravid


Steyn 9, Shoaib 6 and Pollock 7 to partner McGrath who got 20+ votes

 

[mr_mister]

Hayden
Smith
Ponting
-
-
-
-
-
Steyn
-
McGrath


Pick the 4 and 5
Pick the spinner

 

[mr_mister]

and Gooch won the captaincy vote by a point

 

[srbhkshk]

Sachin
Kallis

Murali